New National Competition 2009

Proposed national competition may revive Vikings
John-Paul Moloney, Canberra Times | March 18, 2008 - 1:03PM

The Canberra Vikings' current stint in the rugby wilderness could last just one year if a proposed 10-team national club rugby competition to begin in 2009 wins approval. ACT Brumbies chief executive Andrew Fagan gave his in-principle support yesterday to a plan to restore a national competition after the Australian Rugby Championship was scrapped last year after one season. A full proposal for a new bridging competition between city-based club rugby and Super 14 will be put to ARU chief executive John O'Neill today.

While Canberra and Perth would be likely automatic inclusions in the 'national competition', participating Sydney and Queensland teams would be decided each year based on their placings in Sydney's Shute Shield and Brisbane's Hospitals Cup. There are no plans to include Melbourne, despite it being involved in the ARC.

Each participating club would pay a participation fee of about $75,000 to cover travel and accommodation costs, removing much of the financial burden from the ARU and the state unions.

Fagan said he wanted to see more details of the proposal before pledgingfull support, but said it looked encouraging.

"The initial details appear to be interesting. It includes a Canberra-based team which is great, and if we can work out a way to provide football for that level of players to feed our Super 14 teams then we'll all benefit," Fagan said.

A strong national club competition has been a long-held dream of Australian rugby, which sees itself at a disadvantage against New Zealand and South Africa which have vibrant championships.

The first realisation of the dream - the ARC - came under a previous ARU administration headed by formerchief executive Gary Flowers. After citing disappointing crowds and mounting costs, the O'Neill-led ARU scrapped the ARC, leaving the Vikings without a competition. The supporters of the proposal believe the tribalism associated with traditional clubs would ensure stronger crowd numbers than seen for the ARC.

Before the proposal wins ARU approval, issues including competition duration and player payments will need to be thrashed out.Fagan said the proposed 20-rounds plus finals format was far too long, given the drain on player depth of the Wallabies schedule, the Australia A program and the under-20 world championships.

Another concern for the ACT Rugby Union would regard player payment. It is understood the initial proposal is for unrestricted player payment, which could see clubs in bidding wars for players."It should not be open-ended, there has to be some clear regulation there otherwise it will be an extraordinarycost for clubs that they don't need to pay," Fagan said. In lieu of their involvement in a competition, the Vikings will go on an overseas development tour in September.

Players will be drawn from the Brumbies squad and also from the Canberra club competition.Possible tour destinations include Japan, South Africa and Argentina.

Canberra Times

this is just going pro with the ARC.
we need a new chief executive...

Any clue as to who's developed the proposal?

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Originally Posted by KenyaQuin

Any clue as to who's developed the proposal?

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Probably O'Neill, and he will call it 'John O'Neill's Cup' and take all the credit...

Been looking through the web for any other reference to this competition - and cannot find any?

for any national club comp to go ahead the aru needs to lock in a decent agreement with a tv broadcaster and a naming rights sponsor and not run it at the same time as club finals which was the case last year they had a good product with the arc they should have tried to get a decent tv deal before they scrapped it so hastily

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Originally Posted by jono

this is just going pro with the ARC.
we need a new chief executive...

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Nah not really jono, if you read the scant detail in the article, it seems that the Preth and Canberra teams will be the Spirit and the Vikings of the ARC, but the Sydney and Qld teams will be the best couple from the club comp....how they figure that out when the comp will probably run concurrent with club rugby is anyone's guess, but I don't mind it actually, It'll see a near S14 strength Spirit pit iself against Radndwick one week and Warringah the next.....Surely that'd be a mismatch any way you slice it! even if the Spirit were banned from selecting Eastern states club members to fill slots, surely the number of fringe and academy players available to us would be greater than to any sydney club side, simply because most of the players in the 'Tahs are contracted to the various clubs, only some of which will be competing!

I'd love to see this comp fold because Sydney Uni get hammered by Cnberra one week and Spirit the next...we'd see Vikings v Spirit Grand finals for about three years before Sydne club rugby realises they're on a hiding to nothing.......either that, or the ARU will have to continue Premier rugby funding to allow the player payments to continue!

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Originally Posted by BLR

Probably O'Neill, and he will call it 'John O'Neill's Cup' and take all the credit...

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That's clearly not true - it's being driven by the NSW and QLD clubs (and they've been trying to do it for years now):
O'Neill dismisses funding backflip/Struggling clubs must stop pretending - Western Force Rugby Supporters Site

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Originally Posted by beige

That's clearly not true - it's being driven by the NSW and QLD clubs (and they've been trying to do it for years now):
O'Neill dismisses funding backflip/Struggling clubs must stop pretending - Western Force Rugby Supporters Site

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I point to my last sentence, I reckon it'll be used to justify premier rugby funding continuation, based on the fact that Spirit and Vikings teams will be at least 50% professional players! Let's ignore the fact that Perth and Canberra will probably be self-sustaining!

Probably... Too bad for the clubs that miss out.

Thats the point Beige, its being driven by management in Sydney clubs that WILL be included. They aren't interested in the others, or in rugby development, just developing their club income. Thats when the CEP CFO, etc get bigger salaries.

Unless there is a salary cap, ruled over by the ARU and a Melbourne team is included it won't get support.
These are the people who made sure that an 8 team comp failed but now want to run a 10 team comp. Some needs to tell them 'their dreamin'.

The 'club is sacred' philosphy is no longer all that relevant or healthy in Oz Rugby- whilst essential for the good of the game and especially for the well being of those who want to play a game- the clubs are not the be all and end all in the modern pro era-

Its a different story in the AFL - there the 'clubs' are everything - thats because the club is the pinnacle of achievement for any aussie rules player- you cant represent your state or your country the best you can do is play for an AFL club.

Club Rugby is not the pinnacle of achievement in Australia; players can aim for S14 and ultimately the Wallabies. NRL is sort of in between - the higher achievements being state of origin or a test match against the kiwis.

All I can say is that those in high and maybe powerful places in Australia rugby who are clinging nostalgically and somewhat sentimentally to the 'club is almighty doctine' - are doing so to the detriment of Oz rugby as a whole.

(note when I say 'club' I mean it in the context of the traditional Sydney and Brisbane 'powerbroker' clubs)
happy to daze to you all....

I agree with some of what you say, although i think you diminish the importance of club rugby a little too much. Club rugby is lifeblood of rugby in Australia, mainly because its the grass roots of australian rugby, without it, australian rugby would be nothing.

I do think most people have come to accept that club rugby in its current form will stay purely amateur without any massive increase in the importance of value of the comp.

In saying that, i think there is a massive amount of untapped potential and value in club rugby in Australia, just not in its present form. Unfortunately which ever route is taken albeit club almagamations or a promotion/relegation format some clubs are going to be left out in the cold. Though realistically, for a competition to survive, powerful clubs with big junior bases and good financial backing are exactly what is needed.

I suppose what i am saying, is that a decision has to be made where we have a average level of rugby in the current premier grades. Or do we form a higher competion where the skill level is improved at the expense of the other clubs not promoted.

I think "tiering" is the answer TOCC, If we go to a ten team national club competition, It'll do nothing to strengthen club rugby Either in WA or in NSW, It'll only strengthen the clubs that make it in to the first round of that comp.....Simply because they will be the clubs gaining profile and revenue out of the comp. They will attract players simply by being a part of the club comp...Players who aspire to play at a higher level will flock to those clubs in droves and the other clubs will lose all their best players. The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer, Now I'm not arguing against a free market, but this proposal is hardly a level playing field! The level playing field is far closer to the model set up in the ARC, where you have several Tiers of competition, each containing fewer teams. The club level is the lowest tier (purely because it is the grassroots) they field teams from Juniors, grades etc right up to premier league at an amateur level....Premier league could even be semi-pro really it matters not to the model! Above premier league becomes a form of regional comp in each state, where the club teams in a region combine to make reps teams (which are a lot more likely to be semi-pro) thease teams battle it out somehow, but they should be by definition a regional reps side, not a specific club!

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Originally Posted by TOCC

I agree with some of what you say, although i think you diminish the importance of club rugby a little too much. Club rugby is lifeblood of rugby in Australia, mainly because its the grass roots of australian rugby, without it, australian rugby would be nothing.

I do think most people have come to accept that club rugby in its current form will stay purely amateur without any massive increase in the importance of value of the comp.


I suppose what i am saying, is that a decision has to be made where we have a average level of rugby in the current premier grades. Or do we form a higher competion where the skill level is improved at the expense of the other clubs not promoted.

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Well said! Certainly dont want to diminish the importance of club rugby- But at the same time we don't want to have the 'same old' traditional power clubs (no disrespect) with their own agendas, ie their own club - holding the development of a strong national comp back...