Clarification on a "knock-on"

This one is for Ecky -

The law defines a knock-on and states "and the ball touches the ground or
another player before the original player can catch it".

What if the player knocks the ball on then gets his foot to the ball before it touches the ground. Is it a knock on ? There have been a few examples in recent weeks and the refs appear to have treated it both ways.

I grew up in the belief that it is still a knock on with key words in the current laws being "before the original player can catch it".

its a knock on if the ref believes that the ball was uncontrolled when it left the players hands and the kick was unintentional...
a punt can be interpreted both ways in the circumstances.
a drop kick proper is a controlled release of the ball and is the only exception to the knock-on rule.. it can also only be used in open play if the obvious intent is to score a goal

The intent to score a goal would be a hard one to judge these days, there are guys who can knock one over from 60 in game conditions, so I'd assume given a perfect set of circumstances 70 is possible, how then do you argue with one of those super boots trying to belt a droppy from just outside their 22.

Actually, if you could train somebody up to kick it that far, and wanted to play a northern hemisphere type of game, it wouldn't be a bad tactic. Field the ball go for a drop goal, make damn sure it goes dead, thus justifying the shot and receive the ball from the 22 again. Not in the spirit of the game, but if you've got a player capable of making more than one in three of them it'd be bloody hard to play against!

this is a known tactic and is perfectly legal but noone ever tries it as noone gets enough space in defence to be confident of a getting a good contact with the ball. Youd have to hit it pretty sweetly and with the toe to be able to get it 60m

Yeah, but I can imagine it'd be well used if England or south Africa could find a fullback with a monster boot able to kick it dead from that far.

Let's face it, he wouldn't even need to be all that accurate!

Edited to: I'm only 12.
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I remember Jaco van der Westhuizen (spl) trying to claim he was taking a drop kick when he fumbled a ball and it vaguely touched his foot when the Wallabies routed the Springboks 49-0 in 2006. It was embarrassing for him; he argued hard for it.

I am more concerned with the application of the advantage when a team plays on after a knock on. Over the last few weeks I've seen a couple of times where the advantage was given for a lot longer than I would've expected. One in particulary in favour of the Force I thought was ridiculous. It should be kept to either (a) a successful kick from the play-on (where a disadvantageous kick results in the scrum) or (b) the first ruck marks the end of the advantage (where a ruck in a disadvantageous field position relative to where the scrum would be results in that scrum being set). I suppose at least refs are fairly consistent about it within each game.

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A knock on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.

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The reason we can't have some sort of vollyball ruling is because, in that case someone can deliberately throw the ball over an opponent and then kick it before it hits the groud to escape a sanction.

If the player loses control of the ball close to their body and the ball drops towards their feet, i think they have a case to say they were kicking it. If they genuinely lose it way forward, or away from their body i'd like to see "knock on" called.

can someone inform the Republican Referees... This is important... :sarcastic:

What games was this in? If all the South African refs are calling a certain way, they may have had a discussion on it and come to a consensus.

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Originally Posted by jazza93

The reason we can't have some sort of vollyball ruling is because, in that case someone can deliberately throw the ball over an opponent and then kick it before it hits the groud to escape a sanction.

If the player loses control of the ball close to their body and the ball drops towards their feet, i think they have a case to say they were kicking it. If they genuinely lose it way forward, or away from their body i'd like to see "knock on" called.

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However if the ball is lost forward and regathered before it hits the ground or another player, what's to stop anybody throwing the ball over the defender and catching it on the other side anyway? I know I'd prefer that than kicking it once on the other side.

I would assume players aren't doing that because it would be harsh to
Ing somebody for tackling you in that situation and the ball would then fall away and become a knock on. Thus giving away possession rather than simply forming a ruck.

It might be worth a crack if you're massively isolated, but I'd reckon its smarter to kick it because that affords you some protection from being tackled and allows you to participate in the chase.

Come to think of it, throwing the ball to yourself is probably against the rules as well. No where in the forward pass rule does it say the pass/throw has to be to someone else.

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Originally Posted by GIGS20

Yeah, but I can imagine it'd be well used if England or south Africa could find a fullback with a monster boot able to kick it dead from that far.

Let's face it, he wouldn't even need to be all that accurate!

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err...francois steyn?

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Originally Posted by Blackswan

This one is for Ecky -

The law defines a knock-on and states "and the ball touches the ground or
another player before the original player can catch it".

What if the player knocks the ball on then gets his foot to the ball before it touches the ground. Is it a knock on ? There have been a few examples in recent weeks and the refs appear to have treated it both ways.

I grew up in the belief that it is still a knock on with key words in the current laws being "before the original player can catch it".

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Well, if the ball is lost forward, but the player fly-kicks it before it touches the ground, it is usually pretty obvious that that is what happened. In my game that would be a knock on and there would be a scrum to the other team.

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Originally Posted by Ecky

Well, if the ball is lost forward, but the player fly-kicks it before it touches the ground, it is usually pretty obvious that that is what happened. In my game that would be a knock on and there would be a scrum to the other team.

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Thank you.