Marseilles Massacre

Very disappointed in the game this morning. The Wallabies played without heart or passion and have put all of their individual careers into question.
Plenty of hints from Jones post match that big changes are on the cards for Twickenham.
I feel virtually the whole squad from today needs a kick up the Kyhber and to do so, my 22 for England would be-

1. Greg Holmes, one chance otherwise Fitter to Loosehead, persist with Baxter Tighthead and Holmes bench
2. Stephen Moore, one chance otherwise Tatafu Polota-Nau to the bench and persist with Cannon
3. Dave Fitter , no more excuses left not to play him!
4. Mark Chisholm, had a reasonable game and deserves to start
5. Hugh McMeniman, the lay off has worked wonders for McM having whacked on plenty of muscle, played well and also deserves to start
6. Rocky Elsom, one of few able to hold his head up for his own match against France although others would happily take his jersey
7. Phil Waugh, needs to tighten up on his penalty rate but was a pass mark, sub for Smith at 55-60 mins
8. Scott Fava, must play, has consistentley performed at every other level and is as good as anyone available
9. George Gregan, again made the best of a bad hand (or scrum) and for now is still the best option, swap for Henjak at first sign of fatigue
10. Mat Rogers, by far a better option than Giteau at 5/8 and becoming less convincing at Wing
11. Lote Tuqiri, the experiment has to stop, focus on using on the blind and inside passes from the scrum. Either due to lack of time or skill never passes and is way too predictable and costly at 12
12. Matt Giteau, an extreemly talented player being too pressured and regimented at 5/8, better suited to 12 where he can have a more free hand and create space
13. Llyod Johannson, made an immediate impact and made the gain line (albiet to knock on!) deserves a start if only to bring a beefier Giteauesque X factor
14. Drew Mitchell had more impact in brief spell than Del in the rest of the match. Time to be forgiven for Bledisloe shocker
15. Chris Latham, probably Australian man of the match, currently best option but needs to know must perform as Cameron Shepherd lurking
16. Al Baxter, must restart career. Is in Europe now and is experience otherwise would be dropped from my squad. Is rarely convincing and very disappointing.
17. Brendan Cannon, bad display of ball "skills", needs to step aside to try others, Polota-Nau is pressing hard and only size and experience puts him in front of Adam Freier
18. Nathan Sharpe, Sharpey needs a bigger kick than most, made schoolboy handling mistakes and needs to know he is not a walk up start and must consistently earn 1st XV
19. George Smith, would have more impact in the last 25 to 30 minutes flatout against tired legs than 80 mins. Best suited to Open Side so use him there!
20. Matt Henjak, if Gregan is to play on then time to say an unfortunate goodbye to loyal servant Chris Whitaker. Australia gains nothing by continuing to run Whits rather than grooming a new half.
21. Morgan Turinui, had an off game and as with Sharpe needs a timely reminder that position is not a given
22. Digby Ioane, as with Johannson, Ioane is one of the next generation and would give Del timely wake up to stop worrying about the bling and start playing Union.

I am not normally one to make changes for change sake but this crew needs a good jar.
It will be too late to be making these type of changes in a years time when on the eve the World Cup season.
After this mornings match I am now looking forward to 2008, when we can put an enema through the Australian squad to dislodge and retire the older crew, as there are some excellant young players coming through that will be just too young to make an impact in this four year cycle.
We are also in desperate need of the return from injury for the likes of Larkham, Vickerman and Rathbone.

I don't think it should be called a "Massacre". I thought the Australian set pieces were commendable - a much greater improvement than from the Tri-Nations/Bledisloe earlier in the year. I thought that it was several errors at key times which let the team down; eg- knock-ons, that occurred at crucial stages. An example of this is when Cannon drop the ball 5-10 metres out from the try line.
Other than that I thought the Aussies played fairly well and a good match to build off for the rest of the tour.

I understand where you're coming from Chief.
However, while the match as a stand alone may have some merit, I feel that we have been very forgiving of the players through a pretty ordinary time in Australian Rugby history.
They have enjoyed ample time since the end of the Tri Nations to regain their spirit and passion for the honour of representing their country.
If this game had followed on immediately from the 3N then I would probably have been the first to share your point of view however, what we saw today was a very ordinary return from a decent (in pro sport terms) layoff and pre tour camp.
Things have not improved since the 3N and indeed are arguably worse.
Since the start of the '05 season we have slid from 2nd to now 4th on the IRB ladder and only the large loss by Wales to the All Blacks saved that from closely approaching 5th.
It was not a scoreboard "massacre" but a character one and unless some very hard questions get answered very soon I fear that we may find ourselves running out of time to turn the ship pre RWC07.
I pride myself on being a supporter, not a fan, and have driven mates and other posters on different forums to distraction by promoting "stick to your guns boys", "don't change for the sake of change", "there's no one else" etc etc but I think the time has come for that to be left in season '04-'05 and now move on to a positive group of players who aren't afraid of a loss or their own shadow and will start attacking these remaining games.
Let's face it, it sure worked for the Poms in the Ashes this year!


And if nothing else it was a catchy title ;-)

Bugger! :mad:

From memory there was no point during the game where I though Australia would win, they played no better than they did in the trinations/bledisloe encounters.

I'm gonna watch the game again before I say too much more - it did kick off at 6:00am and I may not have been quite as awake as I could have been, but they certainly weren;t playing like a team that have just come off a good break following a losing streak they'd sooner forget.

Bugger! Just put on the game to watch again, and it only recorded from 5 minutes into the 2nd term (when michalak got taken out) 6 minutes in, FRA 10, AUS 9.

Random obs as I'm watching the 2nd half:
- What did everyone think of the refs hard line on the scrums and at the breakdown etc?
- Tuqiri had only one good run, then proceeeded to pass to the opposition. They had him totally sussed for the whole game
- Commentators quote about Cannon getting elbowed "If there's any blood around, he's usually spilled it"
- how bad was the turf?
- is it just me, or do all the french boys look about 10 years younger than the aussies?
- line outs, problems here for months!
- Yep - Mitchell *did* have a good game, he deserves a bit more time on.
- Where was Sailor? (oh and 'dell, lose the designer stuble)
- Where was Turinui
- Dunning does it again, concedes a penalty 2 yards from the Wallabies line - he only did it once at least!

If we couldn't lift our game for Gregans world record breaking game, how are they gonna lift it for anything else? Do the right thing Eddie ....

As a final insult, the missus reckons they are WAY better looking than our boys too....

Can Oh my head be hurting, of how much red wine a man drink???
I was on a significant drink voyage according to the disappointment of the spectacle of Rugby Sunday morning.
I had hoped that we would see a return to the form by the men of “down under” but of the alas, it were not to be.
It was a display of very embarrassing Rugby from one the five principal teams and I am sure that the heads will roll before we attack the English dogs. On the orders of IRB the Cocks are the better placed European team thus we can only hope then the things improve for here forward. It is advisable to note that the Cocks seemed to have players of sixteen on field for the major part of the play with this idiot of a referee of the land of the black below us.
He some how seemed to think that we lift ourselves at a height of six hours Sunday morning to observe his posing! I learned that our southernmost neighbors think that they have the play before but it obtains ridiculous little when that defers to the officials as well! It would seem to me that this cretin decided changes to the book of rule on the spot rather than speaks the players by the changes about interpretation during a couple the incidents. My greater laughter for the day heard the referee say than "I am consistent!" It would be as a politician say that "I am honest!" I guess that he was consistent by finding Australian faulty the each time...
No matter, I managed to connect with some of my French friends to the "Coq and Taureau" for drinks after the match and their joy overpowered my pain and I found soon in the ground of hangover of Monday! As my old uncle used to say, "If you cannot celebrate in France celebrate at least like France!"

Flaming heck Chiefy, what game did you watch?

They were cleaned out at set play.

France were too fast, more hungry and were physically and mentally stronger.

Scrums were unstable, lineout was a joke (and it wasn't all the throwers fault) and the loosies were non existant.

Time for Jones to start playing players in their proper positions.

I also must concede that I reckoned you would get $1.05 for Jones blaming everyone else for the loss, the bookies would have taken my money when he said it was his fault.

What happened to the Welsh after the 6N? Todys rooster, tomorrows feather duster. Wait till the rest of the Blacks come back from their little break.