I have just been reading a blog on the Sydney Morning Herald web site and an interesting exchange broke out over the Force.
Not sure if the persons concerned are TWF members but they would sure be welcome...
http://blogs.smh.com.au/rugbyheaven/....html#comments
I've extracted the relevant bits and pasted below...sorry for being long but its an interesting read.
I think the time to panic has come and gone, there is very little that can be done at a national level between now and RWC07.
That said, there are a few bright spots in the Aus S14, namely from the Force.
Gareth Hardy - 2 running tries in 2 weeks from a front rower.
Cameron Shepherd - has to be, HAS TO BE starting winger for Wallabies if current form continues.
Drew Mitchell - after a forgettable first game has really stood up and is surprisingly elusive with ball in hand.
Ryan Cross - has had a few bad moments, but I think by the end of the year will be a genuine contender for the green and gold.
Nathan Sharpe - I know, no one likes him anymore, but he has shown a bit of form lately, this could be a good sign for the wallaby pack.
Obviously Gits has played his usual tops game. Staniforth has been a bit ball starved, but still has the class to play pretty much anywhere in the back line, except maybe FB.
So all up, if Aus can get a decent forward pack together, I think their backline could once again be the feared weapon it was.
First step though, get rid of Gregan, Larkham, Latham and Mortlock, they are all great players but they are simply too old.
Posted by: piru piru at February 26, 2007 1:17 PM
Crickey, if as Piru Piru says, Australias union oxymoron, the Force is the only bright light on the Australian rugby landscape then we are truely all worse off than i first realised!
Soccer is often higher scoring than Union these days and the only ones following the game here with any intent are those desperate expats in the west.
Just take a gander at this forum, its nearly totally patronised by Kiwis, doesnt that say something quite profound about the state of play of the game in this country?
Sadly Union is a spent force as much as it is a Western Force, anywhere bar Perth with memberships in dramatic decline.
Not even John O'Neil can influence change over the systemic flaws that are rudementary to a game seriously lagging internationally unless of course that is you are a union purist.
The first thing Mr O'Neil will no doubt embark on will be to look to re invent the Brumby Franchise in Melbourne which isnt very clever to my way of thinking and will only serve to implode the game even further, ultimately that could mean Australian sporting oblivion.
His bottom line corporate approach that sees him so fervently touted as the new messiah of Oz ra ra is a dangerously misplaced sentiment that will among other things, spell the end of the best rugby provincial side and culture in the country only to be replaced by a less than sustainable South Pacific supported Melborne franchise based at Olympic Park. God give me strength!
Bring back Eddie Jones by all means but not J.O. not if you want your Brumby's to continue at least.
Posted by: Cazaly at February 26, 2007 5:31 PM
Cazaly, Mick-e and others:
Please, PLEASE get a dictionary and look up oxymoron, it does not mean what you seem to think it does.
It does make for some funny reading though.
Posted by: piru piru at February 26, 2007 5:50 PM
OXYMORON.
"A figure of speech where contradictory terms are used together, eg cruel kindness".
Piru Piru, the English language allows some license in its use of vocab as in this case when i refer to the Force as being a contradiction in terms in the context of 'Australian Rugby'.
If you would like me to expound on my rationale for this i am more than happy to oblige however i reckon you know exactly what i am alluding to.
Posted by: Cazaly at February 27, 2007 11:37 AM
Cazaly, are you trying to say 'The Force' is an oxymoron in Australian rugby, if so I would direct you to the points table where you will see they are the top placed team.
If however you are trying to say 'Australian rugby' is the oxymoron, well, a lot of people might agree with you (not me however), and it would be the more humourous use of an oxymoron.
Posted by: piru piru at February 27, 2007 2:23 PM
Piru Piru.
The Force is the Oxymoron mate.
Kiwi coach.
Predominately Saf support base with some of your mob making up the numbers.
Most of the Force faithful dont support the Wallabies.
A franchise plonked in the most unlikely of union demographics that sees diddly local product on the paddock or on the horizon for that matter.
A team made up of greedy mercenaries from the the ACT, Qld and NSW due to a them and us culture that fosters dubious third party tactics in sustaining a competitive team.
But you are correct about the table however i reckon that may prove to be a little premature.
I dont support the Tahs but i truely hope they kick your dissaffected posterias as far west as potentially possible.
Posted by: Cazaly at March 1, 2007 9:50 AM
Ahh Cazaly, I had you misjudged.
I didn't realise you were one of the 'bought team, no history wah wah' mob.
Safe to assume you're from Canberra then? say hello to selector and clubman. They haven't bothered to show their faces this year.
Posted by: piru piru at March 1, 2007 11:04 AM
Piru Piru.
It is by virtue of 'Canberra' that you exist as a franchise at all.
It may also follow that your so called Australian provincial franchise will face a similar fate some time in the future.
What a day of reckoning that will prove to be for many a true supporter from this countries heartlands.
I dont come from Canberra but i do support the Brumbies.
At least they represent a province along with Qld, NSW and dare i say to a less extent Victoria, that have long history's of providing our countries elite players and they continue to do so.
Posted by: Cazaly at March 1, 2007 1:19 PM
Cazaly,
I'm not going to get into an argument with you as it's obvious your horse is too high for you to hear me.
It may surprise you, however, to know that I am not a franchise.
The Western Force (not an oxymoron) represent the WARU, or rugbyWA as it is now known, which has been around since 1893, so we have plenty of history. the only issue is getting our amateur standard game up to the professional level, which we are obviously behind on.
We are catching up fast and with our strong support base and huge financial support, as well as geographical distance from rugby talent drains like NSW (which has always been a problem for ACT I believe?) we will look to be retaining our current place as the best rugby team in Australia.
Anyway Cazaly, by your ranting you have show that you are in fact Clubman under another name, this would be the third time you've changed by my count.
Grow some balls man!
Posted by: piru piru at March 1, 2007 2:13 PM
I'm bored so I'll bite.
Cazaly,
"Most of the Force faithful dont support the Wallabies."
Interesting - I am a member but am yet to find or receive a demographic breakdown of allegiances. Where did you find it?
"It is by virtue of 'Canberra' that you exist as a franchise at all."
Even more interesting - I didn't realise that Canberra had come out so strong in support when the franchise was being awarded, but I'm gratified to hear it.
Mind you, from the tone it sounds more like you think all the players came from Canberra. I can see your point - by my count we have three born and bred Canberra boys which (from a quick look through the Brumby player profiles) is just under half as many as the Brumbies themselves and two of them are near retirement.
Anyway, well done on digging out the old school dictionary to find that oxymoron means "A figure of speech where contradictory terms are used together, eg cruel kindness". But your follow up of "The Force is the Oxymoron mate" has me a bit stumped. "the" and "force".....maybe it's just me but sorry, just not seeing the contradiction.
Posted by: AndyS at March 1, 2007 3:48 PM
Piru Piru.
It is delusive of you to assume that The Force are any more integral to the WARU than the Brumby's are to the ACTRU, hence the term Franchise.
They can drop your union like a hot spud as Brumbies Rugby are in the throes of doing with re the ACTRU given a more corporately attractive option is in the offing. The Converse can be said of the relationship the Tahs and Reds experience with their respective unions.
The Brumbies and ACTRU helped significantly in the foundation of the Force, the only state do do so in fact.
What balls, clubman and so on have to do with this debate im not sure but hey ill defer to your thugby pedigree in giving you the benefit of the doubt there.
Enjoy the game.
Posted by: Cazaly at March 2, 2007 1:28 PM
AndyS.
You must be either a Kiwi or Saf i guess.
If you are a member of The Force you presumabely attend the occassional home game and if so you most certainly wont require a Bureau of Stats like number crunch in establishing the Subi support demographic then. Crikey, that was one of the main criteria that influenced the ARU in heading west remember, expat numbers, FACT!
My reply to Piru Piru refers to the support the ACTRU and Brumbies afforded the Force in their foundation year however this support for rugby in the west certainly does not extend to the Brumby faithful given their demise can be indirectly attributed to the Forces over inflated existence, FACT!
Have a gander at the Wallabies that have come out of the ACT over the decades and compare this to WA. This should help put things in perspective for you a little. Rugby in the West may yet be won however this by no means makes up for the expedient way in which ACT Rugby and its public continues to be treated. FACT!
As i say your vague and disaffected comments of whimsey only serve to strengthen my initial use of the word 'Oxymoron' when attempting to describe the Forces relationship and culture in the context of 'Australian Rugby.'
This is further evidenced when deconstructing the typical Force Punters proile, ie yourself and indeed Piru Piru.
One parting comment. I believe many Brumby contributors have fallen from 'Heavens' grace not because their team is a little below par but because their team is heading south to corporate Melbourne given the $ the likes greedy Giteau now command. I see alot of these original Brumby punters these days at the Swannies fixtures at Manuka Oval and only visited this site in a research capacity getting hopelessly diverted as you sometimes do.
Apologies to the very obvious Kiwi centric contributors to this forum, you have certainly helped confirm what many already believe to bethe state of the union, a game that struggles to capture the patronage of many Ozzies outside of the Kiwi, Saf and PI subcultures, needless to say, i wont be back.
Enjoy the game but hopefully not the spoils, im off to the Swannies again this weekend and who knows, i may even run into 'Clumbman.' I say that knowing Piru Piru probably shares your sentiments and posts AndyS.
Posted by: Cazaly at March 2, 2007 2:40 PM
Cazaly,
You obviously have all Force supporters tagged as expats, based (in the absence of any actual data) on the assumptions of the ARU and maybe even the WARU when the franchise was awarded. But you need to remember that these are the same rocket scientists who thought they'd get about 6,000 supporters. If it qualifies as better data, I am WA born and bred and attend every home game surrounded predominantly by Australians - sure we have plenty of Saffas and Kiwis, but the bulk of people smart enough to relocate west come from the Eastern States and also follow rugby. But hey, maybe every other section of the ground speaks with an accent - I don't know. Even if they do though, they could probably make a pretty fair case to be doing more in support of Australian rugby than you if you are attending the AFL in preference to rugby.
You're clearly agitated about some conspiracy theory that the ARU is planning to move the Brumbies south and, if true, that would indeed be a shameful outcome for a great Australian rugby province. But if so, surely your problem is with an ARU organisation that the ACTRU had far greater input to than the west. If there is a problem between the two, I really can't see how the fostering of a long neglected province or the existence of the Force can be any more than a symptom yet it comes across as your primary source of irritation. If there is a problem with the ARU, sort it out - there is no point whining about the Force.
Incidentally, if you need to put a context to a supposed oxymoron, then it isn't one. You'd probably be better off calling it a misnomer, or maybe ironic. Mind you, talking of irony, you support the Swans - a team that was taken from it's South Melbourne Aussie Rules heartland and relocated to Sydney in pursuit of the corporate dollar? Please tell me it ain't so...
Posted by: AndyS at March 3, 2007 12:18 AM
