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Thread: Future search - Metro comp path forward.

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    Future search - Metro comp path forward.

    To all of you passionate Metro Rugby Stalwarts. For too long all of us have been heading in the same direction ( developing a fair comp,, pathway for aspirants, coping with growth etc etc) but many have been on different tracks.

    As previously alluded to, RugbyWA have co-ordinated 3 detailed meetings with representatives from Premier clubs, Champion clubs, referees and the Judiciary.

    A proposed model from the floor has been put together and is out there for discussion before the next President's gathering so that all issues and questions can be considered and together the pathway refined and timeline established for the way forward to be implemented.

    Let me ask you to please chat with your presidents and canvass good critical analysis, if you see a problem, think of a solution, if you see a solution, get behind it.

    The aim is to create a wide base sometime in the future - maybe 5,6 or 7 years ( working towards the final proposal will require some steps along the way so timing is pretty critical).

    The idea is to split the competition into 3 divisions with 14 clubs. Not every club will field teams in each division . 14 clubs allows for regular and fair scheduling and includes the flexibility to split during a season, accommodate byes and keeps clubs together on game days.

    The intent is to create a pathway for most juniors to play premiergrade rugby with the club they start with - so we need clubs to step up to fill the numbers in Division 1.

    Div 3 clubs need only field 1 team - this is to accommodate district clubs and potentially new clubs that form.

    Div 2 would field 2 teams and Div 1 would field 4 teams made up of 3 senior sides and a Colts ( development side)

    For a club to enter Div 1, they must field 4 teams and have a dedicated progression or Colts/development side. Some would like this side to be curtain raiser to Premiergrade matches and be a truly Reserve grade team - one item open for discussion. A club that fields 4 teams in Division 1 DOES NOT need to field teams in Division 2 and 3.

    A club like Uni would probably field teams in all three divisions, a club like Curtin may start in Division 1 and grow into the others. REMEMBER THIS IS STILL SOMEWAY OFF.

    To get to this model we need to develope the competition to allow clubs like Joondalup, Curtin, Mandurah, Arks to grow their skill level so perhaps in 1 - 2 years time Curtin's 1st grade side competes in the Premierclub Reserve grade comp. and perhaps 2-3 years after that, they have the depth and skill level to compete at Premiergrade level.

    Where will this growth in skill come from? Apparently the junior comp. especially under 14 is extremely competitive and pretty even. How good would it be for this group to play premiergrade rugby in 6 years time?

    Anyway - I cannot cover all the salient aspects of the Future search, but would ask you to chat with your presidents and ask questions here. Suffice to say that Premiergrade clubs will have to wear a little bit of pain en route to the 3 Division, 14 team comp. The pathway may mean that premiergrade clubs will have 3rd and 4th grade paly at a different venue to Prems, Reserve and Colts for 3 or 4 games in a season. The scheduling will work hard to ensure at all home games the clubs remain together but 3 or 4 away games out of 9 may mean a split.

    The end proposal ( 14 team, 3 div comp.) did get unanimous acceptance from the participants, but all agreed the path to this comp and timing will be absolutely critical to grow retention rates, create a pathway to the Force and Wallabies and to allow flexibility to split the comp so that newly formed Premiergrade sides are not playing the well established clubs all of the time.

    Look forward to your comments and questions:

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    I have a quick question:

    Are you saying 14 teams per division or 14 clubs overall?

    At last count I think there were 19 clubs across both Metro Competitions.

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    14 teams per division,

    e.g. Uni will field all 4 teams in Div 1, All 2 teams in Div 2 and their 4th or 5th grade in Div 3. Joondalup may only manage Div 1, so then another club - say Midland field 2 teams in Div 2 and Bunbury 1 team in Div 3. The idea is to accomodate all clubs.

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    That doesn't seem to be addressing the issue of clubs like Nedlands & Cott sticking their superstars in 6th grade. Or is that being dealt with seperately?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zed View Post
    That doesn't seem to be addressing the issue of clubs like Nedlands & Cott sticking their superstars in 6th grade. Or is that being dealt with seperately?
    Care to expand on this - it is an interesting one which has been around for ages but I feel that it is being blown up considerably - Why would a team fighting for a premiership in the top grades, play "superstars" in the 4ths? Don't get it.

    In addition, if there are guys that only want to play 4ths with their mates, not train and have a cleansing ale or two on top of this then what are you to do? force them to play up? Just asking

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    Champion zed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkyDi View Post
    Care to expand on this - it is an interesting one which has been around for ages but I feel that it is being blown up considerably - Why would a team fighting for a premiership in the top grades, play "superstars" in the 4ths? Don't get it.

    In addition, if there are guys that only want to play 4ths with their mates, not train and have a cleansing ale or two on top of this then what are you to do? force them to play up? Just asking
    Our 5th grade, which compromises mostly guys in their 40s/50s & 60s are regularly coming up against teams whose 5th grade side is better than their 3rd grade side and has young, big lads that should be playing 1st grade. Complete mismatchs and not fun for either team.

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    Senior Player DinkyDi's Avatar
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    I understand this aspect Zed but is it stacking (cant see why you would) or is it just mates playing with mates - you cant force someone to play in a team that he does not want too. In reality, 5th grade is still open grade competitive rugby, not golden oldies so it the guys can no longer hack it then maybe its time to move on. There is not age restriction at any open grade and I remember may young guys, back in the day, running with the 5ths.

    Dont get me wrong. Its great to see club stalwarts still running for their team but please, its a contact sport open to all comers - no whining that these lads are a bit rough for us. As I said - maybe its time to move to a more social Golden Oldies for some of the Old Dogs

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    I can't understand why a club should be letting a "3rd grade" player play down in the 5th grade anyway, just so he can play with his mates. Surely this does nothing for promoting competitive rugby and for putting your best teams out throughout the grades.

    I don't there's enought clubs in WA rugby. I know this probably isn't feasible, but they should look to increase the number of clubs in WA and bring in a promotion and relegation system, which will then make for more meaningful matches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkyDi View Post
    I understand this aspect Zed but is it stacking (cant see why you would) or is it just mates playing with mates - you cant force someone to play in a team that he does not want too. In reality, 5th grade is still open grade competitive rugby, not golden oldies so it the guys can no longer hack it then maybe its time to move on. There is not age restriction at any open grade and I remember may young guys, back in the day, running with the 5ths.

    Dont get me wrong. Its great to see club stalwarts still running for their team but please, its a contact sport open to all comers - no whining that these lads are a bit rough for us. As I said - maybe its time to move to a more social Golden Oldies for some of the Old Dogs
    Dinky, I half agree with you. However this year Cott have raised the bar with their 5th grade sides, one filled with former (and recent) 1st graders running around supposedly for all the reasons you mention but they have actually poached players from other clubs to form a Super 5th Grade and that's what pisses clubland off.

    The supposedly weaker of the Cott 5th grade teams now comprises half of the North Beach rugby league team; ie 100 kg islanders who like running thru people and a goal kicker who kicks more consistently than Dan Carter.

    Younger players in 5ths should be new to the game, ie an entry level.

    Cott are really pissing people off! Why can't they play with a straight bat. Come back Dinky and get your club under control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DinkyDi View Post
    I understand this aspect Zed but is it stacking (cant see why you would) or is it just mates playing with mates - you cant force someone to play in a team that he does not want too. In reality, 5th grade is still open grade competitive rugby, not golden oldies so it the guys can no longer hack it then maybe its time to move on. There is not age restriction at any open grade and I remember may young guys, back in the day, running with the 5ths.

    Dont get me wrong. Its great to see club stalwarts still running for their team but please, its a contact sport open to all comers - no whining that these lads are a bit rough for us. As I said - maybe its time to move to a more social Golden Oldies for some of the Old Dogs
    No it's not stacking and it's not goldie oldies, but it is a bit more social than other grades. So it kind of ruins the party when you're coming up against guys who were playing 1st grade 1, 2, 3 years ago. There's some young kid who was in the Sharks academy in South Africa running around in this division, it's effectively 7th grade, in Perth.... what is the point? I'm not bemoaning the physicality of it, I'm bemoaning the poor sportsmanship & lack of humility e.g players sneering at the opposition as they pile on the points, seemingly oblivious to the fact they're 20 years younger...

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    Last edited by zed; 22-07-13 at 13:43.

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    Senior Player DinkyDi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RumourMonger View Post
    Dinky, I half agree with you. However this year Cott have raised the bar with their 5th grade sides, one filled with former (and recent) 1st graders running around supposedly for all the reasons you mention but they have actually poached players from other clubs to form a Super 5th Grade and that's what pisses clubland off.

    The supposedly weaker of the Cott 5th grade teams now comprises half of the North Beach rugby league team; ie 100 kg islanders who like running thru people and a goal kicker who kicks more consistently than Dan Carter.

    Younger players in 5ths should be new to the game, ie an entry level.

    Cott are really pissing people off! Why can't they play with a straight bat. Come back Dinky and get your club under control.
    RM - its a tough one - I cannot comment on the make up of the Cott 5ths etc as I honestly don't know anyone in these teams. I agree, from the comments from both yourself and Zed, that it is not in teh spirit of the 5ths tradition etc etc etc but if you have a bunch of mates who just want a run on a Saturday, what do you do - bugger them off or let them play?

    In relation to "getting my club under control", yet again, I am but a bystander far far removed from the lofty perches of the senior Gulls.

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    I think Joondalup have the 5ths spirit... a coffin with a shot of port each in it for half time.

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    Having played for Joondalup in those lower grades many times - the shot of port definitely helps the old aches and pains.........especially when you're up against "3rd Graders" masquerading in the 5th grade...!

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    The make up of 4th and 5th grade teams has been a bone of contention for years - just look at the UNI 4ths including an ex Wallaby who could still cause havoc in many Reserve grade matches.

    The proposed structure is aimed at getting 14 clubs to put 3 senior and 1 Colts team into Div 1. Now if those clubs decide their Reserve grade and Third Grade senior teams can support their 4th grade and 5th grade teams in Divvy2, then their Div 1 teams will get smoked each and every week. If the Colts age group changes to say under 19 and perhaps the Reserve Grade team becomes an under 23 ( just another idea that was debated and had substance) then I would imagine Zed's problem would be solved.

    One thing that we also all agreed on, the backbone of most clubs, the guys who put coin into the club and put their hand up to help are those in 3rd, 4th and 5th grades, they need to be looked after.

    Why has Dinky Di got a tricolor flag, shouldn't it be the St. George cross???

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    We seem to lurch from one season to the next without really growing the game or moving forward so any change has to be better than no change.One of the big ones is the current 18's and 20's format that was forced upon the rest of the world by the English rugby union.What might work over there or even over east is clearly not working over here.The under 20's comp seems to be quite dysfunctional with clubs struggling to put teams out and a huge gap in playing standards leading to big scores and forfeit's.When young men play 18's for a year or two and are still eligible for a 3rd season and there are a lot of them out there then opt to play 20's for a season or two they then become tired of those grades and want to play reserve grade at least at around 19 years old.If you look at the age's of most prem teams they all have at least 3 or 4 players eligible for colts and in some cases are eligible for 18's so a positive move would be to go back to 17's and 19's and then open grade.Like the idea of reserve grade being under 23's with a bit of tweaking it could work with say exemption being given to front rowers and or a quota system regarding overage players because your next club legend may take a bit longer to get himself up to scratch.We are losing too many players at colts age and this would help stop that, I believe there has to be change but those that make these decisions have to be aware that whatever is decided is not going to please everyone.The above reasons are why we don't bother with a 20's although there would be at least 10 from our reserve grade who would be eligible

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    Last edited by westies man; 22-07-13 at 20:04. Reason: ss
    Wests Scarborough 1st Grade juggernaut has played finals rugby each and every year since its inception and continues this remarkable feat yet again this season and unbelievably it's still rolling on and as an added little circle jerk for the masses Wests actually hold the record for the current longest unbroken finals record.

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