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Thread: Reds' huge loss of experience

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    Champion Contributor Jehna's Avatar
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    Reds' huge loss of experience

    Reds' huge loss of experience

    May 19, 2008

    THEY have been drained of 1000 caps of Super rugby experience in the past two seasons but Queensland have full confidence an "exciting" youth policy will restore the Reds to a position of power.

    The battling Reds finished the 2008 Super 14 in 12th place - the fourth straight year in the bottom three - with just three wins and a draw, and lost eight of their most experienced players.

    The Queensland Rugby Union (QRU) confirmed wing-fullback Clinton Schifcofske, prop Rodney Blake, lock Ed O'Donoghue and centre Chris Siale won't be at Ballymore next season.

    The quartet join Australia's Chris Latham (Worcester), Sam Cordingley (Grenoble) and Stephen Moore (Brumbies) who are departing while veteran flanker David Croft has retired.

    Between them the eight players have 382 caps of experience but when you add the number of others who have left since the 2006 season - after the Western Force had already raided their stocks - the number grows to 1000.

    The exodus could be even worse with senior men John Roe (82 Super games), Morgan Turinui (71) and Van Humphries (45) all weighing up their futures.

    If the trio farewell the Reds, coach Phil Mooney's likely starting side for the start of next season would have an average age of 21 and with an average 22 games of experience.

    Form winger Peter Hynes, at 26 and with 55 caps, would be the team's veteran. This compares to an average of 58 Super caps of the strongest team of 15 players who have left in the past two years.

    But the QRU, regarded as a provincial powerhouse in the 1990s, talk up the potential for a major turnaround after a six-year spiral. "Our take on it is experience is one thing but performance is the ultimate," said QRU high-performance manager Ben Whitaker. "Experience and performance gives you absolute quality: eg Latho. But I don't think we have the opportunity this year to pick up a lot of experience. "We've concentrated on selecting and promoting performers and a good example there is (Wallabies halfback contender) Ben Lucas who was our No.3 halfback at the start of the year. "We have built on young guys. They are performing and are bringing huge enthusiasm to play for Queensland and the team and that's encouraging."

    While the results didn't come, the play improved markedly, prompting Croft to confidently predict a title in three years' time. The injury-affected Reds did lose their last four matches of the season, but their ability to push top two teams NSW and the Crusaders and tough Kiwi sides the Blues and Chiefs suggested a major improvement around the corner.

    Skipper James Horwill, Berrick Barnes, Quade Cooper, Lucas, Digby Ioane and Leroy Houston all showed the most encouraging signs and are all under 22. Whitaker said there was a sense of togetherness and a growing culture which will not only trigger success but attract and develop other talented youngsters.

    "We're very confident that's how it will work out," he said. "We use the word exciting and then you have to live up to that excitement tag. We don't use potential, it's more than potential."

    The biggest problem the Reds believe they have to solve is how to replace David Croft at No.7. Whitaker and Mooney are desperate to lure future Wallabies flanker David Pocock, 20, from the Force and have talked up their vibrant expansive style and youth culture in their bid as well as leadership.

    "We have a game style that suits his. He can play like George Smith. He can play very hard on the ball but can also be a linkman and ball runner," Whitaker said.

    Mooney recognised it was a tough sell alongside the Force's extra experience and better position (seventh) but holds strong hope. "I know he's a young guy who likes a challenge and he very much has leadership qualities and he could potentially entrench himself to be one of our leaders long term so it really depends on what his motivations are," he said. "We believe we have a program that can develop his potential as a footballer and develop him as a person off the field."

    Players Lost
    Chris Latham (Worcester) 109
    Clinton Schifcofske (Ulster) 22
    Ben Tune (Retired) 98
    Julian Huxley (Brumbies) 32
    Drew Mitchell (Western Force) 35
    Elton Flatley (Retired) 84
    Sam Cordingley (Grenoble) 50
    Mitchell Chapman (Brumbies) 28
    David Croft (Retired) 94
    Tom McVerry (Japan-Italy) 44
    Mark Connors (Retired) 88
    Ed O'Donoghue (Ulster) 21
    Rodney Blake (France) 36
    Stephen Moore (Brumbies) 47
    Anthony Mathison (Retired) 24
    Total Super caps - 866 Average - 58
    In doubt - Morgan Turinui (71), John Roe (82), Van Humphries (45)

    Likely 2009 team (plus current age and Super caps)
    Peter Hynes (26) 55
    Brando Va'aulu (21) 18
    Blair Connor (19) 0
    Berrick Barnes (21) 34
    Digby Ioane (22) 27
    Quade Cooper (20) 22
    Ben Lucas (20) 10
    Leroy Houston (21) 13
    Tasi Luafutu (20) 9
    Scott Higginbotham (21) 5
    Hugh McMeniman (24) 21
    James Horwill (22) 39
    Dayna Edwards (22) 12
    Saia Faingaa (21) 27
    Greg Holmes (24) 34

    Average age - 21.6yrs. Average caps - 22

    AAP

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    So of the 1000 caps they have lost, just 35 of them can be alleged as "stolen" by the Force is Drew Mitchell at 35 and Force returned Digby with 20 odd.

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    Legend Contributor slomo's Avatar
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    certainly a young side for next season....

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    I'm happy to get on the bandwagon for 2011 (ie Croft quote) with them, by then I agree they will be really hitting their straps.
    Unfortunately for them so will the Force so it'll be my teams 1st and 2nd
    I predict an '09 season similar to ours this year for them and a finish around mid table.
    FYI Scott Higginbotham is a WA lad too. So that is him, Sheehan and Wal that I know of playing S14 in the East.

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    I read somewhere that the Reds were chasing Tom McVerry and some other dude who used to play for them or the Waratahs who plays in Europe to fill Croft's spot. Seems like they aren't too confident of luring Pocock.

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    Reds suck, who cares

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    I think the large cleanout will do them a long term favour. They have been dreadfull for awhile now but i rate Barnes and Cooper as a combo for the long term( and future Wallabies)

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    somebody should pick up siale. Gun player and super strong.
    Force maybe??

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    Why don't the Reds just use him? He's a bit older and more experienced than Blair O'Connor so he would probably get the nod at 13 over O'Connor.

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    Veteran robyn <3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chook View Post
    Reds suck, who cares
    australian rugby should care... the selectors DO look at them, and select players from them. s14 2009 will look like
    1- WESTERN FORCE
    2- Brumbies
    3- Reds
    4- Tahs

    and then we will win the trinations and bledisloe coz all the aussie teams are the BEST!

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    My point exactly James. They were using andrew walker on the bench.. that guy was throwing the pig skin with cave men... he's rubbish.. Hopefully siale can stay in australia.
    The reds have no idea how to keep talent.
    1.rodzilla
    2.siale

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    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    My point exactly James. They were using andrew walker on the bench.. that guy was throwing the pig skin with cave men... he's rubbish.. Hopefully siale can stay in australia.
    The reds have no idea how to keep talent.
    1.rodzilla
    2.siale
    with Rodney Blake, thats not the reds problem, the ARU wont top up his contract..

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    Quote Originally Posted by robyn <3 View Post
    australian rugby should care... the selectors DO look at them, and select players from them. s14 2009 will look like
    1- WESTERN FORCE
    2- Brumbies
    3- Reds
    4- Tahs

    and then we will win the trinations and bledisloe coz all the aussie teams are the BEST!
    You are absolutely right. The stronger the four Australian teams are, the stronger Australian Rugby will be. Let's be the first country with three World Cups.

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    Senior Player tic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by number9 View Post
    My point exactly James. They were using andrew walker on the bench.. that guy was throwing the pig skin with cave men... he's rubbish.. Hopefully siale can stay in australia.
    The reds have no idea how to keep talent.
    1.rodzilla
    2.siale
    Whilst that may have been true in past years with reject coaches like Eddie Jones, it certainly is not true now. Phil Mooney is actually a magnet for some of Australia's best young talent, and this is now being seen by the playing roster that he is assembling (and holding). This will bear fruit shortly, no doubt about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by travelling_gerry View Post
    So of the 1000 caps they have lost, just 35 of them can be alleged as "stolen" by the Force is Drew Mitchell at 35 and Force returned Digby with 20 odd.
    looks a little bit different when you factor in Nathan Sharpe, Junior Pelassa, Tai Mcaisac, Rudi Vedalago and the other Reds players that the Force poached.

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