Bok key to O'Connor's Force plans

[rahrahgirl]

why is he a better option than signing an up and coming player or for the same money three up and coming players and putting in the effort to coach them through. out of three players hungry for opportunity im sure you would find a long term option that could do the job at super rugby level.

alot of people here support john mitchell and say he is the best coach available and so on. why is he scared of developing players, everyone he has had success with so far has been coached to the same level or close to by other coaches. maybe mitchell should back himself and sign a team to mould rather than players who are coming for money.

[Burgs]

I've previously said that I don't agree with the system, I believe in principle that we should be developing our own.
However, the system is there now to use so may as well be used if it can improve the core skills of the team.

As is often stated, if you have a stable pack then you can "unleash" the Backs.
Likewise, if you have a good Flyhalf then you will get the best out of the rest of your Backs.
If the ARU can see that the Force Backs will be well served by secure ball from the Forwards and clean passing from a recognised Flyhalf that will allow them a platform to play from then they will sign off in a blink.
Put it this way, we have far greater depth at Flyhalf and Inside Centre than we do at Prop in Australia and they agreed to Ben Castle no worries and that was always as a one year deal.

Here you have someone who is actually wanting to become a citizen (with the knowledge that doesn't mean he is able to play for his new nation) because his family are here and are wanting to settle. A situation not that dissimilar to several TWF Members.
Not only would the ARU see benefits for the short term but what value can you put on having a Springbok in the WA Rugby Community for the long term "as well"?

I seriously doubt that money is a great motivator in this particular situation and he would certainly be able to command far more in Europe.

A different person under a different scenario and I would possibly be howling it down too, but I think this is a good call on balance and will lead to the signing of players such as JO'C that we may not have been able to gain/keep otherwise.

[rahrahgirl]

i dont agree with the system at all.
i agree with you that while its there to be used you would be silly not to.
but the thought of losing another up and coming player to an overseas club when that player may go on to represent the country gets on my nerves a bit. especially in such a crucial position.
the reds and waratahs both have rookie props playing this year that are holding there own. the talent is there to be developed, its just not getting spread out so everyone gets game time.

[travelling_gerry]

ahh....But theres nothing like a bit of travel overseas to learn something and bring back home.

[pieter blackie]

alot of people here support john mitchell and say he is the best coach available and so on. why is he scared of developing players, everyone he has had success with so far has been coached to the same level or close to by other coaches. maybe mitchell should back himself and sign a team to mould rather than players who are coming for money.

The gap between club level and super 14 rugby is to big in Perth to just take someone from a club and let him play for the Force It will take more than one season to get a player ready for this. There is a Academy at the Force developing these players and when they are ready and good enough they get used by the Force.
It sounds easy but you do not get super rugby quality players behind every bush. If you look at how many players played premier grade club rugby last year in Perth and compare that to how many ended up being good enough to play for the Force then you will see what I mean. So for as long as club rugby is at the bottom of the food chain in WA we will have to import players to play for the Force.

just look at the money clubs in the east get from ARU and compare that to WA clubs in general

[rahrahgirl]

i understand what your saying but i think your missing my point. if your going to recruit players for top dollar then you should recruit at the level below and build a team. im not saying every player should come from perth, im saying picking players out of clubs in the east would accomplish more long term than a year or two of a good player in a certain position. peter grant is good but he isnt exactly gits and if he commands more than an aussie player in salary i would prefer to see an aussie get the cash.

[AndyS]

for as long as club rugby is at the bottom of the food chain in WA we will have to import players to play for the Force.

I don't disagree, because it is blindingly obvious that an increase in club standard would inevitably be reflected in the standard of players available to higher level. But I am curious - say the funding scenario suddenly turned around and club rugby became a priority, what would the money be spent on and how would it raise the standard of play?

[pieter blackie]

I doubt that he will be earning more than your average Aussie rugby player I do suspect that his pay package will all be based on performance rather than reputation

[Cookie]

Good young players may have to head to syd club comp to gain experience and recognition or exposure,young will brock has been doing well over here.Not much choice otherwise.

[rahrahgirl]

well if he is on a standard contract he will be earning less than aussie players as he doesnt qualify for a aru top up, so you have to figure he is getting third patry sponsors or is a marquee player.

while norton-knight and possibly hangalagalu (sorry spelling, lol!) are without contracts but would play there guts out for a team if asked.

im a big one on using our own resources. i only play netball but correct me if im wrong cvomparing the two sports. but i dont learn how to be a goal attack from defending against players or from playing in the same team as a good goal attack. im a defensive player and while the roles on a netball court are a bit more defined than on a rugby feild (forwards and backs not withstanding) if o'connor is standing at 12 learning from watching gits then he isnt playing 12 right!

[pieter blackie]

But I am curious - say the funding scenario suddenly turned around and club rugby became a priority, what would the money be spent on and how would it raise the standard of play?

Start with the basic things like club change rooms, Medical equipment, gyms, fitness trainers and conditioners. seating for spectators.

If you go to a ground like Wanneroo or even Uni for example and you have to change in their change rooms you will understand. Or if you have to stand in the rain game after game because there is no decent shelter for reserves and staff next to the field or even for spectators.
Those are things that raise the level of our players. I know a couple of guys that left Perth to go and play club rugby elsewhere because of the poor facilities in WA.
The only club with decent club facilities is Rockingham and that should be set as a standard for other clubs in Perth

[James]

i understand what your saying but i think your missing my point. if your going to recruit players for top dollar then you should recruit at the level below and build a team. im not saying every player should come from perth, im saying picking players out of clubs in the east would accomplish more long term than a year or two of a good player in a certain position. peter grant is good but he isnt exactly gits and if he commands more than an aussie player in salary i would prefer to see an aussie get the cash.

Thats what the Force has been doing. We've taken on plenty of young talented guys to build into a team. O'Connor was 17 when he first played for the Force. How young do you want them to be?! Now he wants to move on because he needs to develop his skills- preferably under someone else. We can't constantly be dropping and taking on new development projects.

We are trying to build a team around a guy like David Pocock but what happens when his contract is up and the other teams come a knocking? We all hope he'll stay but if it comes down to a choice between playing for the Force or playing for his home state in a reinvigorated team I think we'll be lucky to keep him. These things take time.

[rahrahgirl]

but with the exception of o'connor & pocock (both of which were identified in another teams academy) the rest of the players have achieved to a resonable level under other coaches. to say "what happens when his contract is up and other teams come knocking?" is akin to saying that the force gave birth to its players when they were actually developed by someone else.

i love the force but when you look at the brumbies creation they picked players who were hungry and held back. the same urgency and expectation of themselves doesnt seem to run through the forces blood, maybe it was the extra money to lure them over there that caused them to ignore the club for there own individual gain maybe it wasnt. but if you signed some up and comers who are stuck in the club system and want it badly they will give you a better return than poaching stars. i agree that having a guy like pocock long term would do as much good as smith or waugh has done for nsw but if he doesnt have the players around him why would he want to stay.

in the four years the force have been around now i havnt really seen a culture develop at all. with the other australian teams you alomost always knoww which team is going to turn up, with the force you sort of rely on one or two players to do something speacial to bridge the gap. if the force that played in canberra this year would play like that every week i would fly back to perth for every game!

[Tazzmania]

Back to the original topic.

Looking at next season it is unlikely that there will be any "ready", or "soon to be ready" flyhalves in Australia, willing to play for the Force, and with O Connor looking to develop at centre or full back ( the position Robbie Deans is keen on), I support the Force looking at someone like Peter Grant. He is big and strong can play flyhalf and centre giving us the option to move him around as we develop whoever we have in mind as a more long term candidate. He can kick as well which will help us under the way the current ELV's are steering the players.

If he is keen to settle in Perth and while he may not be a Wallaby candidate, his experience can be used in local club rugby in later years as both a possible player and or coach manager.

[Cowboy]

If Grant wants to come to Perth and make it his home then it would be a good signing for the team. It might also help to get some of the ex-saffa's along to MES next season.
We need a team that first want to win a super14 title playing for the Force and then worry about Wallaby selection and money.