Is it worth starting discussion about an "Even Playing Field"?

[The InnFORCEr]

Very interesting post Andrew, why not send it into Rugby HQ and suggest the feature segment on the show about it!!!

I've started by sending a tweet to Nick McArdle

[jargan83]

Get rid of ARU top ups and distribute the money to the franchises.

Problem solved.

[andrewg]

Very interesting post Andrew, why not send it into Rugby HQ and suggest the feature segment on the show about it!!!

I've started by sending a tweet to Nick McArdle

I need to know a lot more facts around the system and player payment structures before the issue can be taken further.

I just can't understand how a team like the Reds can retain 19 International experienced rugby players with a Salary cap of $4.5 million (or was it increased to $5 million?) as well as additional sponsorship payments to players of $300k per team.
Obviously they will lose some such as with Harris and Shipperley moving to the Rebels.

I also don't know enough about the ARU payment system to Test players. Are there still top-ups or has it reverted to just match payments?

Do any TWFers know more about the structure of these payments or can point me in the right direction?

[jargan83]

Salary cap is $5 million. Not every players is going to be on top dollar either, working it out equals an average wage of $166,666 (still 30 man squads?).

The ARU pays players $10,000 per test on top of ARU contract payments.

The answer to your question is easy, Qld and NSW can hang onto international players by using the top up system.

KHunt being a recent signing for Qld and if media reports are accurate is on $600,000 a year now we know the ARU got involved so the QRU in theory only have to shell out $300K of their salary cap and the ARU will cover the other $300k.

I'm not the only one who has banging on about scrapping the top us system. The top up system makes the whole playing field unfair.

Only problem is RUPA have to agree to it and those greedy bastards probably won't agree to it.

In Queenslands case having a crap load of international experience won't help when you have a moron as coach.

[andrewg]

I thought the ARU had reduced the top-up system and it was only available to "proven" regular (was it 2 years?)???
They probably also have a sliding scale of top-ups as well with a low entry point and building up???
Entry Test players get the minimum (if any top-up) plus match payments???
This allows someone like Ben McC to be poached as the Tahs will just push (with likely success) for a larger Wallaby top-up for him.

[Tazzmania]

I may be wrong but in the past I have read somewhere that the Waratahs salary cap is not the same as ours, the have an additional cap over and above. I seem to think there is close to 6,5m

[jargan83]

I thought the ARU had reduced the top-up system and it was only available to "proven" regular (was it 2 years?)???
They probably also have a sliding scale of top-ups as well with a low entry point and building up???
Entry Test players get the minimum (if any top-up) plus match payments???
This allows someone like Ben McC to be poached as the Tahs will just push (with likely success) for a larger Wallaby top-up for him.

Well I thought the same thing about ARU top ups but obviously the ARU will go back on their own policies when it suits them.

I would imagine so regarding the scale of top up but I don't work for the ARU. They probably have a magic number generator when coming up figures. Also I'm pretty certain that in the past a player had to be signed with a state before they were eligibale for an ARU top up but I assume that has been scrapped as well.

Everyone gets a Test payment regardless of whther they're playing their first test or 100th.

Ben McC may be lured back by other things such as proximity to family, Rex is right players want to play in successful sides.

I may be wrong but in the past I have read somewhere that the Waratahs salary cap is not the same as ours, the have an additional cap over and above. I seem to think there is close to 6,5m

You're wrong.

Just seems that way given the leg up they get via the ARU system.

[GIGS20]

Also I'm pretty certain that in the past a player had to be signed with a state before they were eligibale for an ARU top up but I assume that has been scrapped as well.

You are correct Jargan, but that doesn't apply in the KHunt case, he signed both contracts at the same time, therefore he WAS contracted to a state when he signed the Wallaby top up.

Everyone gets a Test payment regardless of whther they're playing their first test or 100th.

Yes, that's true, but not everyone is contracted to the ARU. Match payments is separate from ARU top-up. I aven't heard anything to suggest that the 2 year minimum has been removed from Wallaby contracting, but it has obviously been ignored in the case of KHunt and Folau (possibly some others, I'm not sure) The fact is, the Brumbies have the biggest axe to grind over that, having lost a star player and Wallaby captain because they refused to give him a contract citing those grounds, then they turn around and contract KHunt before he plays a game in Australia.

Ben McC may be lured back by other things such as proximity to family, Rex is right players want to play in successful sides.

That's true, but some players want to BUILD a successful side, the question is, how long will he work before giving up and taking the easy money.

[jargan83]

That's true, but some players want to BUILD a successful side, the question is, how long will he work before giving up and taking the easy money.

The hatchet job has started and it's only a rumour...

[GIGS20]

Nice try, but I can't find anything but positive in what I said.

Eventually, he'll get sick of busting his ass when others in the organisation aren't and move on. (assuming it comes to that)

[G_Beard]

The hatchet job has started and it's only a rumour...

Do go on...??

[jargan83]

Fishing trip

(And a poor one at that)

[shasta]

You were becoming obvious anyway.

[Rex Messup]

The best way of creating an even playing field is to get rid of this screaming communist mentality of salary caps. Pay the players more and it will stop them going overseas. If less go, there will be a glut of talent looking for a franchise. They need to get creative with player 3rd party deals. Why not? It saves the franchise going broke and can allow us to compete in the global player payment market. Too many small thinkers in the ARU... The Force need to target the springboks. The RSA politics and race agendas are ironically racist. Plenty of highly talented rugby pedigree in the worlds greatest rugby nursery face a limited progression to the pinnacle of rugby. Come on out to Perth. I'll put a prawn on the barbie for ya

[chibi]

I've never really understood why they didn't just allow third party payments in the first place. If the Force could afford Giteau, Pocock, O'Connor, Shepherd, Cross, Staniforth, Hodgson, Brown, Cummins in the same squad using this system, why shouldn't we apply it to the entire competition? Why lose players to English and French clubs who are lucky enough to reap the rewards of pay-TV and corporate advertising, just because they exist in higher populated countries? Even the great Welsh clubs can't compete with them. Bring in the payments, expand the fully professional squads to give us a reserves game for the Australian derbies and put some of that money towards pioneering the game in new schools and new areas throughout Western Australia.

Hell, there's going to be South American and Japanese input into this competition soon, there must be some company somewhere willing to put up a bit of "Badger Money"..?