Crusaders v Force - game thread 30/05/2014

[GIGS20]

Also noticed an instance in that last penalty decision if you watch the replay where Matt is trying to talk to the ref & he deliberately turned his back on him & The look on Matts face. Credit to Matt I would've bitch slapped him well & truly for being rude! What a cockhead!

I thought Matt brought up good points a couple of times only to be roundly ignored.

He reminded the ref that Sias was taken out 10m off the ruck when he was trying to ignore that and give the try, waved away.

He was checking to see whether the shoulder had left the scrum when Sias played at the ball, rightly arguing that if so, the ball was out, didn't even get a wave, complete turning of the back.

Apparently the ref had money on a Crusaders 5 point win!

[chibi]

I'm the first to admit I don't know too much about refereeing, but I would like see a ref's review of that game and the Reds/Highlanders one also.

[SNOB]

I'm the first to admit I don't know too much about refereeing, but I would like see a ref's review of that game and the Reds/Highlanders one also.

+1

[Kept One]

The boys looked a bit tired, but you have to expect that given the recent travel and short turn around. In the forwards I felt that the front row had a good game, and the loose forwards played well. In the backs I felt the two standouts were CTM and DHP, the Badger had a couple of decent runs and a magnificent cover tackle. Dellit went missing for most of the game and was a useful to us as the Ref.

[SinBin]

Delitt's chip kick was a coach/fan killer...

[Scozzie]

Congrats to Ref for MOTM

The ref played a big part in that defeat, in my opinion. There was a definite forward pass from the Crusaders in the build-up to Wykes being sent to the bin and eventual first penalty try. And a couple of plays before that he missed a clear obstruction from the Crusaders on the other side of the pitch. And.......I saw at least two tackles from the Crusaders identical to the one that got Cottrell yellow carded in the Reds match. And................how can you give a penalty against Hoskins for collapsing his first scrum - does he not get at least one engagement to settle in....? C'mon refs, lets have a bit of consistency, or at least lack of bias.....!!

I thought the Force played again with a lot of guts, and feel really sorry for Cottrell with his injury.

[SinBin]

..but I would like see a ref's review of that game and the Reds/Highlanders one also.

+1 Would also like to know the penalty count of the game.

[WFDom]

+1 Would also like to know the penalty count of the game.

20 - 7!!!!!

No need for me to tell you who to SB....

[shasta]

Couple of coincidences with the decisions. After half time the Crusaders had had the better of the decisions and Hodgo had been blatantly ignored when he asked clarification of the rulings. The Saders looked set for an easy win. The Force then got a run of decisions their way, dominated field position and scored a try to narrow the gap. They looked to have momentum and another try would have at least put them in a losing BP position. Suddenly they again began to apparently do everything wrong and the rest is history.

I'd really like to see the review of that referee's performance. We should have some access to this type of information. After all it's our memberships and TV subscriptions that pay their salaries. They are professionals nowdays and should be publicly accountable. It's one area where the Mungos are much more transparent.

[chibi]

It's funny how the RL ruck situation is so simple, everyone clears out, the defence move back 10 metres, and only four players are left in the ruck area, two defensive markers, the tackled player and the dummy-half and then they all stand up so you can see everything- and yet still, THEY HAVE TWO REFEREES.

Our game has a much more complicated situation, we have players from both sides actively cleaning out from both sides, our defensive lines are so much closer; there is SO much more room for holding players illegally; obstructing defenders and clearing a path through them as part of a "clean-out;" on-purpose-by-accident choking a player in a maul or ruck; and yet OURS is the game with one ref?! Cynical I maybe, but a lot of these tactics allowed England to "win" a world cup, I wonder if that's why there is so little action against it from an iRB standpoint?

Hell, even the rollin' maul don' roll no mo!

[shasta]

Not comparing games Chibi.Just making a comparison of how transparent they are with performance review. Where one side appears to be reffed out of the breakdown with such a penalty count, I reckon the review should be more transparent. Not just papered over by the boss without explanation. I have always stayed away from blaming a referee for losses and yesterday was no exception. But I agree with Foley's take on the influence those decisions had on the scoreline.

[chibi]

Well I gotta admit, I am comparing the two, and I think the NRL are streets ahead of us. I'm just watching the Brumbies game now and Steve Walsh has just told the Rebels he's taken "responsibility for the situation" after awarding a try against them where a blatant forward pass was thrown. The Melbourne players are asking for a TV replay and he's telling them no, it's his responsibility. I don't understand how that is a reason not to go for the TMO, does that mean he will award the Rebels the match points if he sees he's wrong after the game? Of course he can't, so how he can he "assume" responsibility? Fat lot of good that'll do the Rebels if they lose by less than a try.

I'm with you on this one, we do need greater transparency, especially considering that RL has it, and our game is much more subjective to interpretation in the ruck area than theirs is. I also think that if a ref at this level can give such a cockamamie reply to a genuine enquiry from a captain, the captain should have some sort of authority to tell the ref, "for the record, we'll be filing a report on that decision." I know this opens up a can of worms about tit-for-tat behaviour and ensuring the ref is subsequently biased against you after the incident, but couldn't that be used as evidence at the report?

[shasta]

There should be no qualms about confronting the situation. That example you gave of Walsh is not unique. The "job" he did on the Hurricanes a while back was scandalous.

[SNOB]

Well I gotta admit, I am comparing the two, and I think the NRL are streets ahead of us. I'm just watching the Brumbies game now and Steve Walsh has just told the Rebels he's taken "responsibility for the situation" after awarding a try against them where a blatant forward pass was thrown. The Melbourne players are asking for a TV replay and he's telling them no, it's his responsibility. I don't understand how that is a reason not to go for the TMO, does that mean he will award the Rebels the match points if he sees he's wrong after the game? Of course he can't, so how he can he "assume" responsibility? Fat lot of good that'll do the Rebels if they lose by less than

I'm with you on this one, we do need greater transparency, especially considering that RL has it, and our game is much more subjective to interpretation in the ruck area than theirs is. I also think that if a ref at this level can give such a cockamamie reply to a genuine enquiry from a captain, the captain should have some sort of authority to tell the ref, "for the record, we'll be filing a report on that decision." I know this opens up a can of worms about tit-for-tat behaviour and ensuring the ref is subsequently biased against you after the incident, but couldn't that be used as evidence at the report?

Chibi I think Walshie is scared as bro! Disgusting reffing.but it seems that they are all as bad? The game between the cains and blues, though entertaining was filled with either bad reffing decisions or having to ask the TMO for the basics! AND THERE LIES THE PROBLEM,
Blatant forward passes missed, but go back 4/5 passes ago to see if someone was in touch,..I'm tired and losing intrest. How the hell do we expect to get new supporters.

[chibi]

I'm curious to know, is anyone on twitter or in contact with Scott Allen, the rugby analysis guy from Roar and Green and Gold Rugby? I'd love to see him do a video on those games.

,..I'm tired and losing interest. How the hell do we expect to get new supporters.

Indeed, rugby ain't quite what it was in the late 90's-2001. Not just being nostalgic, but honest. It was the most exciting period I can think of in the professional era; the game was so skilful and full of expression, it made Barbarians matches redundant. And the great thing about it was that the best teams in the world were also the teams that played the most marvellous rugby. Somehow, under pressure from the British press and "custodians" of the game, the tackle situation slowed down and negated the skilful backrower, any dummy runners were now called obstruction, a player chasing his own attacking chip or grubber could be knocked down most of the time, the ref would scream "it's out!" and defenders would come in from the side of the ruck and kill the ball "legally." Overall, measures came in which negated the skill side of the game and enhanced the brute force side of the game and it degenerated into the scrappy slugfest we have now.

Is it any wonder the game exploded in popularity in that period so much so that Perth were demanding entry into the Super 12 and every Wallaby test was a sell-out? Our game made league look like 5 barges and a kick, and soccer and AFL look like a bunch of guys with their eyes to the floor fumbling over a ball they couldn't control. Nowadays, conversely, the game is arguably sitting last among the football codes in Australia.