Denied residency

[Swee_82]

Sorry if this upsets anyone but i for one would rather talk rugby than get my back up over issues out of our control...

Presumably the rugby talk would be on the 'rugby' forums... there's a few.

Agree, has the potential to get very heated, but it's no different to when people attempt to solve all the world's problem once they've put a few cans away.

Besides, it's not like we're discussing daylight savings.... *duck*

[shasta]

If you need Doctors, and God knows we do, recruit them. Give them permanent residency, promise them the earth at the time of recruitment, and honour your commitment. I have no issue with that.

I do. But I wouldn't if they all came from Germany. I recently had to be in the emergency dept at our local hospital and was treated by a fine African doctor. It outrages me that, in a state which has just experienced probably the biggest resources boom in history and has been running surplus budgets for years, we still need to pinch doctors from places like Malawi when some of their fellow citizens, having a life expectancy of 43 years, are dying in the streets.

Sorry for the rant, guys. But I'm totally disgusted with our political system over this issue. I'm happy the German doctor's case ended well. I never doubted it would. Now I agree with FR. Back to the rugby.

[gustafsl]

ps...this is the first thread i have evr smited anyone, i don't like it...

Since it is me that you have smited I have to ask why??? I don't take it personally or anything, and realise that not everyone is going to agree with my ideas. But it seems to me that my post was quite reasonable. Let him in, but have a restriction that he has to keep working in the bush for x number of years.

The only reason this got such a media beat up was that he was working in an area that has doctor shortage. So if that is the main reason he is getting in shouldn't there be some sort of control to ensure that it continues to happen? Again, what is stopping him from moving to the city now?

[frontrow]

OK, this is what i knew was gonna happen... It was basically your reference to the janitor and his son, and wether there would be a media beat up as a precedent had been set with this DR...What i objected to is that we really have no shortage of people who could fulfil this role, albeit not everyones cup of tea, but we obviously don't have enough DR's across this country, and anyone that wishes to improve our health system (or teachers, police, nurses,etc) deserves our support...And to impose a rule enforcing them to stay in the one place is a little draconian, (given thier only crime is having a disabled son), i thought we as a country believed in freedom of choice, so he can choose to move on in the future if that was his wish, although judging from the community support he has he'd be mad to do that, plus imagine the media scathingly tearing strips off him if he did...Also your reference to paying taxes p*ssed me off as his son may have a disability, but what is to say he cannot earn a living (thereby paying tax), or provide a service to his community (volunteering), what, because he has a disability he is a leech on the Aussie taxpayer, that really wound me up...There are plenty of able bodied aussies who get away with a sh*tload more bludging than some disabled people i have met...
Now look, i really may have overreacted to this and made a mountain out of a molehill, which is why i requested that this thread be closed...If i have offended you i apologise, i usually come to this site to talk about rugby...

ps... I retracted the smite as i believe i was wrong to judge your opinion, we are all entitled to our own views, sorry mate...

pps... I would also like fulvio to know i also agree with a lot of what he said re: refugees and the like...This thread is full of so many issues which can present so many heated responses from otherwise easygoing, carefree rugby supporters, hence my appeal that we shut it down now...

[jargan83]

I didn't see the logic in deporting a country doctor or any doctor for that matter. I blame the media for getting the child involved in the story, he should never have come into it.

It outrages me that, in a state which has just experienced probably the biggest resources boom in history and has been running surplus budgets for years, we still need to pinch doctors from places like Malawi when some of their fellow citizens, having a life expectancy of 43 years, are dying in the streets.

You make it sound like he was snatched in the night with a bag over his head. Odd's are he would have applied to come here, when the guys down at the Immigration Department saw he was a doctor they probably fast tracked his application. Would you prefer he ended up in the US or Britain? At least he is here making a differance here. Who are you mad at more? the Government for granting him a visa or the nice Doctor for applying for it to begin with?

which is why i requested that this thread be closed..i usually come to this site to talk about rugby...

plenty of Rugby forums on the site, where i assume most of the Rugby is talked about

[frontrow]

Regarding that last line Jargs, it is true that there are plenty of rugby threads, but something like this thread is like poking a stick at a tiger snake, i can't help but react...I hate upsetting my otherwise relaxed fellow supporters with my views...

[jargan83]

Doesnt upset me, everyone is entitiled to their own opinion

[laura]

You may have noticed other posts where the goverment health nazi's are campaigning against a low level of alcohol consumption (I think they are trying for 2 drinks a day to be considered a problem and 3 drinks a binge) and they do it carrying the flag of "cost to the health system". It's a load of crap and undermines everything that I think is good about us.

Firstly, Alcohol is a huge problem and costs the health care system in Australia a great deal of money. I just studied Alcohol & Other Drugs and Public Health in Australia and all you have to do is look at the Bureau of Statistics to see the problems associated with alcohol use. Yes it is a huge part of being Australian and plays an important role in our society, for a number of reasons, but it also leads to great expense through injury, death, absenteeism, illness etc.

Gus you make a good point about him coming to Australia to work in the country. The rural areas of Australia are screaming out for doctors and despite him having a disabled son, if he is going to be giving a service that can benefit a large number of people and HE will be the one caring for his son, then that outweighs any 'burden' associated with allowing a disabled person in to the country. A disabled person and a doctor has the ability to work and contribute to the country's economy more than a population of sick or injured people. Also a child with down-syndrome is likely to grow up and be more productive in our society than someone who is going to be a doll-bludger all their life and not do anything. Being physically or mentally disabled is not a pre-cursor to being useless and un-productive and if thats how the government perceives it then they are unfit to be in power if they are going to be so ignorant and judgemental.
Having a clause as part of his residency allowance is certainly an option but it would be highly unlikely to be applied to someone else with a different proffession and therefore is unfair and not really allowing for equal opportunity.

Even with tobacco (which some of the programs I agreed with and some I didn't) the thinking of cost to the health system overlooks that everone who doesn't die of a tobacco related illness will still die eventually and presumably at a cost to the health system.

True, if not dying of a tobacco-related illness they will still die eventually, but then there are the problems with disability-adjusted life years and the potential for illness, and the need for screening to try and prevent illness, all which come at a cost to the health care sytem and tax payers.

But if this man was contracted to come here on a short term visa, knowing all the conditions, Why should different rules apply to him than to any other work visa holder when it turns out the existing conditions no longer suit? Others have to go home and apply again.

Agreed, if he did any other job he would be treated differently. Although I disagree with the point about having to go home again. I think for all people who hold a work visa, they should be able to re-apply before their visa expires. The time while they are away re-applying is just the same as the time before they even came over, there is still a vacant position.

Also agree that refugess don't come in to this discussion. The guy is a migrant not a refugee and he chose to come here to work and contribute the economy and the health of the country. It's likely that he didn't come here to escape his worn-torn country where he was fearing for his life or because he just wanted to come to Australia.

It outrages me that, in a state which has just experienced probably the biggest resources boom in history and has been running surplus budgets for years, we still need to pinch doctors from places like Malawi when some of their fellow citizens, having a life expectancy of 43 years, are dying in the streets.

I agree whole-heartedly here. Taking doctors from countries who have an even worse health system, if they have one at all, and bringing them here is stupid. At the same time though health proffessionals are also leaving Australia to go to those countries. By no means is it a fair trade, but at the same time there's not alot that can be done about and bringing doctors here has the chance to teach them new things, new techniques and expose them to different cases and experiences which will help them gain knowledge that they can take back to their homelands and teach to other people.

[beige]

Actually I've been impressed with how well thought out the discussion's been on this thread I've seen this kind of thing degenerate before

[brokendown gunfighter]

I blame all of this on daylight saving

if queensland had it,this debate would never happen

[Cowboy]

There, everyone happy now?

Now let's get back to bagging those refugees. They use the weak excuse of wanting to escape being murdered in Iraq or Afghanistan and have the cheek to think of coming here.

They're not like that German doctor who doesn't have his own civilized country to return to where there is universal health care, social security and the rule of law.

They're not like that poor German who simply misunderstood that a two year contract is a two year contract and a two year visa is a two year visa and that a wealthy country has an obligation to support and nuture its own disabled..They're not ignorant and stupid and uneducated like him.

No, these refugee bastards just want to come here to bludge off us and our government. They just think coming to a country where they don't speak the language, where their qualifications are not recognised, where they are abused, sneered at and treated like animals is water of a duck's back as long as they get $200 a week in handouts which barely pays their subsistence food bill, let alone their slum accomodation.

And it's not as if Australia has in any way contributed to the mayhem and social disruption in their countries, is it?

No we only need white queue jumpers, not those dark skinned woggy types who don't even believe in our God.

Sink their boats, I say!

There is one thing that I have not yet got my head around for refugees from conflict zones. These refugees clearly want to live in a free and peaceful society and hence try to move to another free nation that is at peace, but at the same time wish to retain their own culture and ultimately would like to live in their own nation.

So why is it that they do not fight for freedom in their own nation? The opportunity to do so is available to them, these are not totalitarian nations. I don't intend this as a critisism, rather I find it a genuinely interesting question of human behaviour as to why?
ie have they lost hope of success? or do they consider the risk to their own families to great,
Somehow I think the answers would tell us alot about their lives.

[beige]

There is one thing that I have not yet got my head around for refugees from conflict zones. These refugees clearly want to live in a free and peaceful society and hence try to move to another free nation that is at peace, but at the same time wish to retain their own culture and ultimately would like to live in their own nation.

So why is it that they do not fight for freedom in their own nation? The opportunity to do so is available to them, these are not totalitarian nations. I don't intend this as a critisism, rather I find it a genuinely interesting question of human behaviour as to why?
ie have they lost hope of success? or do they consider the risk to their own families to great,
Somehow I think the answers would tell us alot about their lives.

There's nothing wrong with people wanting to retain their own culture - there seems to be a perception amongst some people that to embrace the culture of your new country means abandoning your old culture, when one should really enrich the other.

I think a good example to answer you question is Jose Ramos Horta - when East Timor was under Indonesian control, he fled the country but that didn't mean he abandoned it. He continued to fight for the country's independence.

It's very easy from our (innacurately) cosy experience of the world to ask questions of refugees like that but, seriously, if you have to choose been staying and fighting against the regime or making sure your children even have a future I don't think that's such an easy point to argue. At what point do your values overtake the welfare of your loved ones?

Sorry, if that's sliding a little off topic.

[LarryNJ]

I blame all of this on daylight saving

Blame the Seppo, he started it all.

I was simply jealous that they make it so difficult to get nto the country. I wish our government would be half as strict.

FR we are all adults here and if the subject is something that personally you can't handle simply don't read it. There's no reason for the mods to close it because you can't control yourself.

I think the refugee comparisions are valid, the original question I ask was, Is it really that difficult to become a resident?

If there is such a shortage of doctors especially in the country. Why don't more people get into the profession?

[Swee_82]

If there is such a shortage of doctors especially in the country. Why don't more people get into the profession?

Short version, combo of a lack of funded places in university and the huge lag time between the start of training and being a qualified doctor (especially a country one that in all likelihood would be the sole source of medical care).


A purely personal opinion (based on the people I know that went into medicine) is the fact that for a long while the people studying medicine we COMPLETELY the wrong people to be doing it (for the most part) and I dare say, wouldn't necessarily stick it out. Thankfully this is changing, although, the introduction of purely graduate medical schools delay new doctors arriving even more.

[normie]

I blame all of this on daylight saving

if queensland had it,this debate would never happen

Yet another argument against daylight saving!

Thats it!!!!!! I'm going to ring the authorities and tell them that if the boy can't stay then I'm going to wind back my clock and run by my own time zone....

That'll show 'em !!!!!