EWF 2010 team???

[Cookie]

I like the look of the team for next year, we have more depth in some positions, and the loss of Gits,Drew and Valo doesnt seem so bad now.

[jjk]

Hey guys, I watched the wallabies test last night in Tokyo and yet again James O'Connor had another terrible game. His defence was very poor highlighted by his miss tackle on Conrad Smith, his kicking in general play was also poor highlighted by the amount of times his kicks put the wallabies under pressure, when he rans the ball he tends to isolate himself.
With his current form I think he will struggle to find a position in the Force line up. I would prefer Shepherd at full back and Harris or Tatupu at 12.
His form has been terrible! Maybe he is just not up to international standards.
What do you guys think?

[Sheikh]

I've not been able to see the games over here, but from the reports it sounds like he's lost confidence in his abilities. Hopefully he'll be kept in the team for the NH tour, as he should find the NH sides much more to his liking. Dropping him now could be worse than continuing to play him.

[jono]

the coaching staff and the leadership group of both the wallabies and the force will always be watching him intently. they have a huge responsibility to mentor him and develop him through the early stages of what is hopefully a long and successful international career.

his form slump - for want of a better term. will be monitored and adressed as it needs to be.

[TommyM]

Hey guys, I watched the wallabies test last night in Tokyo and yet again James O'Connor had another terrible game. His defence was very poor highlighted by his miss tackle on Conrad Smith, his kicking in general play was also poor highlighted by the amount of times his kicks put the wallabies under pressure, when he rans the ball he tends to isolate himself.
With his current form I think he will struggle to find a position in the Force line up. I would prefer Shepherd at full back and Harris or Tatupu at 12.
His form has been terrible! Maybe he is just not up to international standards.
What do you guys think?

Not sure if this is just a gee-up, but could not agree less. Yes, JOC did slip of I think 2 tackles last night, but they were not tackles that he was close in on i.e they were fingertip tackles. He also made another try saving tackle. His kicking was also not great, but no worse than anyone else from the Wallabies (Gits especially). He made some fantastic runs when he did back himself and was very strong in the tackle. I noticed that he moved into 12 for some of the second half where I definitely think he is better suited. Shoe in to start at 12 for the Force next year IMO, with Shepherd at 15 (not to take anything away from Tatupu mind you- he's excellent, just doesn't offer what JOC does in the way of ball playing).

---------- Post added at 21:10 ---------- Previous post was at 21:08 ----------

I'm not sure that Deans will persist with Cross at 13 though I'm afraid. He I thought DID have a rather forgettable night (including being responsible for the ABs first try :-( )

---------- Post added at 21:13 ---------- Previous post was at 21:10 ----------

though in Cross' defense, I think he was hindered in attack by not having a true ball player inside him in AAC

[Darren]

Whilst I didn't watch it intently enough to comment on specifics, I also thought James did OK.

[force addict]

i think people expect too much of james. sure he has massive potential but you have to give things time. plus playing the NZ must be a huge amount of pressure to deal with when given a late call up. sure he had a few terrible kicks and missed some tackles but its what happens.

[GIGS20]

i think people expect too much of james. sure he has massive potential but you have to give things time. plus playing the NZ must be a huge amount of pressure to deal with when given a late call up. sure he had a few terrible kicks and missed some tackles but its what happens.

and given the fact that he's been hammered pretty soundly by them of late.

The one thing I'd point to is the fact that his mistakes are different, he seems to be learning. as evidence I submit the bomb with Conrad Smith chasing on Saturday. Rabbit attacked the ball like there was no tomorrow (which was his mistake in Wellington) and came away with an awesome play.

I personally don't think he's quite cooked in terms of international rugby, he's really only starting ATM due to a high injury toll.

After seeing Saturday, I'd like to see Quade Cooper (yes Quade) have a crack at the ten. He mightn't fix the tactical kicking issues, but he's certainly got a more varied game than Gits and the intermittent brain snaps he offers could be les damaging than eighty minutes of promising suckyness.

[jjk]

Tommy M, it wasn't a gee up, I was being serious. In my opinion he had a very poor game for the reasons I just gave. He played well against the Barbarians and Italy but the rest of the international season he has been very poor, hopefully for the rest of the tour he plays very well. I personally would prefer Adam Ashley Cooper at 15 with maybe Tyrone Smith at 12 and move O'Connor back to the bench.
Tommy M, I don't think he is a shoe in to start at 12 for the Force. He doesn't have the physical presence to play at 12 particularly against alot of the South African teams, if he is going to play S14 next season he may have to play at 15...
Pretorius is going to be our 10 and if you put O'Connor at 12 it makes for a very small mid field.
I'm not sure, just thinking out loud, maybe you guys are right!

[James]

He is the same size as Matt Giteau. He just needs to learn how to handle his size with regard to the bigger players. You also have to remember that he made his international debut as an 18 year old while Giteau started out at about 21 and had a shocking start to test rugby. He needs time and in tests he needs to be used solely from the bench in my opinion. You can't expect a 19 year old not to crack under the pressure placed on him by the worlds best rugby side when his own side is being molested at the breakdown. The Super 14 is generally a big step down but in the next year he should be starting in at least half the games (I would play Sam Harris at 12 against the SA teams and maybe also the Hurricanes and also the Brumbies if they play Mortlock at 12) but you can still put him at 15 in defense until he is ready to cope with the traffic.

[GIGS20]

Tommy M, it wasn't a gee up, I was being serious. In my opinion he had a very poor game for the reasons I just gave. He played well against the Barbarians and Italy but the rest of the international season he has been very poor, hopefully for the rest of the tour he plays very well. I personally would prefer Adam Ashley Cooper at 15 with maybe Tyrone Smith at 12 and move O'Connor back to the bench.
Tommy M, I don't think he is a shoe in to start at 12 for the Force. He doesn't have the physical presence to play at 12 particularly against alot of the South African teams, if he is going to play S14 next season he may have to play at 15...
Pretorius is going to be our 10 and if you put O'Connor at 12 it makes for a very small mid field.
I'm not sure, just thinking out loud, maybe you guys are right!

Tyrone Smith at 12????

Are you kidding, he hasn't made a training squad all year has he? Surely we have better options at 12 than that?

Quade Cooper, Matt Giteau, Kurtley Beale have all trained with the Wallabies and can all play 12, surely you're not going to parachute in a new player to the set up when we already have cover (albeit limited) in the position.

[mudskipper]

Sharpie and Cummins in starting line up when fit.

1. Matt Dunning
2. Pek Cowan
3. Tim Fairbrother
4. Tom Hockings
5. Sam Wykes
6. Matt Hodgson
7. David Pocock
8. Richard Brown

9. Brett Sheehan
10. Andre Pretorius
11. Cameron Shepherd
12. Sam Harris
13. Ryan Cross
14. James O'Connor
15. Mark Bartholomeusz

16. Nic Henderson
17. Ben Whittaker
18. Richard Stanford
19. Ben McCalman
20. Justin Turner
21. Josh Tatapu
22. Dane HP

[TommyM]

He is the same size as Matt Giteau. He just needs to learn how to handle his size with regard to the bigger players.

He's actually a fair bit bigger than Giteau now I think. Saw them standing next to each other the other day and JOC was noticeably taller. He has also put on about 8kg apparently in the last year or so meaning he's now at about 88kg, about the same as Berick Barnes. With age and more development. he'll probably reach low/mid 90s, ideal for a 12. The telecast still listed him at 80kg though- the weight he was before he came to the Force!

[mudskipper]

Wouldn't it make more sense to play O'Connor on the wing? Injected him into the attack through centre field using his pace and step between seasoned harden backs Pretorius & Sam Harris or staying on the wing and stepping inside big Ryan Cross when the Force has the ball? In doing so removing him from needless defensive duties for a small guy. I’d let him drift using his creativity; let him enjoy his rugby while he is still building size and experience in the back 3 in 2010. Take the pressure off…

There would be a lot of great plays JO'C good run in from a wing position.

[Burgs]

I don't think I expect too much of JO'C, I do expect him to justify his selection though, Test Caps aren't training sessions.
I think JJK may be closer to the mark than some of us might want to admit.
He is destined to be an awesome player, he has shown glimpses of what is to come, but you simply cannot be hot and cold as a junior Test player and expect to continue to get selected. That is for senior Tightheads.