Terms of Reference for a Senate Inquiry into the Future of Rugby Union in Australia

[Tonkar]

I have sent the submission to the Senate and emailed Mark McGowan. Now working on contacting the IRB.

World rugby won't reply I even foned Myra Bills sec and she was going to email some addresses for me to pass on but still.nothing 7 days later

[Bakkies]

World rugby won't reply I even foned Myra Bills sec and she was going to email some addresses for me to pass on but still.nothing 7 days later

Which addresses are you looking for?

[SPaRTAN]

The ones you don't hear about. For example, the 7-9,000 crowd at a Rebels game last year when Rebels fans in the crowd were saying it was more like 3,000.

That is the truth but would never be made public.

And in a population of more than New Zealand that is worth preserving apparently... what a joke.

You would expect Melbourne to get a regular crowd of atleast 16-20k given just how large it is and given its perceived passion for live sport. But there simply isnt any real appetite for the game of Rugby in Melbourne amongst all the other codes. Even the NRL giants The Storm dont get much support unless it is a finals match. Given all these factors and ofcourse all the other ones including the financial burden the Rebels franchise puts on the ARU you just cant help to think there must be foul play involved. The people who banded together at the top of the ARU pyramid and deceitfully ensured the Melbourne license would continue to survive have now been exposed for who they truely are, cons.

It is now becoming incredibly apparent they may be draining large sums of money for their own personal gain whilst being complicit in preserving the Franchise which they appear to be using for this very purpose which seems like they have no intention of finishing milking every cent the ARU has in accounts to prop up their already unworthy expensive livelihoods. The seemingly deliberate BidCo takeover failure seems like an attempt to put this circus into montion and has been the cayalyst for the ARU to axe the Western Force. I hope at the end of the senate inquiry they throw the legal book at everyone of them. Pulver, Eales, Robinson, Clyne, North, Clarke, even O'Neill . All complete utter scum. If they had just axed the Melbourne side noone would have figured out what they were doing, but I guess greed got the better of them and the 10s of millions of missing dollars isnt enough for these guys.

[BLR]

Think about the crowds the Force originally got, did the Rebels EVER get anywhere near that amount. Our crowds reduced through horrible results for many years and high ticket prices, (I believe ARU regulated?) has Melbourne ever shown this upside? My experience from Super Rugby matches is the fans are timid and seem to have very little passion to get involved and big matches like the Bledisloe have fans mostly from other states/countries. It is just a facade, Victorians like to say they are the sporting capital of the world/Australia but I like to say they are the sporting capital of the world as long as that sport if AFL.

[Tonkar]

Which addresses are you looking for?

Myra told me the best person to send information to is David Carrigy .. Whos Address do you have

[SPaRTAN]

The Force were pulling regular crowds of 30k and had a membership base of over 20k for their first few seasons. If you added up every crowd attendance from every match in the Western Forces first few seasons then it probably equated to more than the Melbourne Rebels got throughout their entire existance. Thats how pathetic the Melbourne crowds are, they are shrinking too which is the saddest part. They appear to not even have signed the Victorian government agreement for the extra cash to embezzle. It really is a worry when this governing body is willing to sign long term contracts lasting decades for such a short term financial gain. Its scary when you think about the ARU's long term viability under this current board and leadership.

[Tonkar]

The Force were pulling regular crowds of 30k and had a membership base of over 20k for their first few seasons. If you added up every crowd attendance from every match in the Western Forces first few seasons then it probably equated to more than the Melbourne Rebels got throughout their entire existance. Thats how pathetic the Melbourne crowds are, they are shrinking too which is the saddest part. They appear to not even have signed the Victorian government agreement for the extra cash to embezzle. It really is a worry when this governing body is willing to sign long term contracts lasting decades for such a short term financial gain. Its scary when you think about the ARU's long term viability under this current board and leadership.

Melborne have cut some of there Memberships by up to 40% to try and get the crowds in .. Not Back But in .. Just shows things were bad .. Also this from a fox sport news feed I just cut and pasted it.. All the Saved Money is now going to make room for the extra force players not grassroots


Their pending arrival has raised questions as to how the Rebels have been able to fit them under the $5 million salary cap, particularly given their high profile off-season signings of Wallabies vice-captain Will Genia and former England lock Geoff Parling.

The Rebels have also re-signed Japanese No 8 Amanaki Mafi — their player of the year in 2017.

There have been no official announcements, but speaking to foxsports.com.au on Friday, Rebels chief executive Baden Stephenson said he was confident of securing Coleman, Haylett-Petty and other leading Force players.

“Those two and a couple of others have been in our plans for the $5 million salary cap the whole time, so they’ll definitely fit in,” Stephenson said.

“It’s maybe the back end guys or some of the fringe guys that might be jostling around the back end of salary caps and squads (that could struggle to find a home at the Rebels).

“But certainly Adam and Dane are front and foremost in our squad numbers and salary cap figures.”

[SPaRTAN]

The ARU top up system discriminality ensures the home unions retain there playing power. Rather than move the salary cap up and include the Wallaby top ups as part of the salary cap they have made this payment to the players non-inclusive ensuring that NSW amd QLD can retain star players in their super rugby sides creating an unfair playing field for those two sides. It really is the biggest scam in sport. The players should all be distributed evenly across all 5 teams (when there were 5) and ensuring that the talent was evenly distributed. The fact the FORCE got a grand slam against the other sides in some seasons and romped home with a makeshift squad in their last is testimont to the heart and spirit of this side. With everything stacked against it the FORCE made statement after statement. David vs Goliath. And ultimately the grubby ARU tactics were the only thing that could stop this side from dominating Australian rugby for the next decade.

[SteveWA]

Rebels chief executive Baden Stephenson said he was confident of securing Coleman, Haylett-Petty and other leading Force players.

“Those two and a couple of others have been in our plans for the $5 million salary cap the whole time, so they’ll definitely fit in,” Stephenson said.

The whole time? Like the last twelve months since you were told the Rebels were safe and the Force was going? I suspect Baden might have just let the cat out of the bag.

[shasta]

You would expect Melbourne to get a regular crowd of atleast 16-20k given just how large it is and given its perceived passion for live sport. But there simply isnt any real appetite for the game of Rugby in Melbourne amongst all the other codes. Even the NRL giants The Storm dont get much support unless it is a finals match.

Actually the Storm averages a 19000 home crowd. They also have about triple the membership of the Rabble. Despite this their average annual loss over 20 years is $6 million. Until 2012 those losses were absorbed by Rupert Murdoch. In 2012 the newly formed NRL, as part of the deal to be rid Newscorp (nominally at amy rate), had to commit $26 million in "incremental funding", as Pulver likes to call it for a further 6 years. Despite their huge on-field success, decent crowds and strong membership they are still not turning a buck for the new owners. They have also only produced two local first graders. And only fringe first graders at that. All sound familiar?

What will the ARLC do if they are still not profitable at the end of next year? Move them back to Perth hopefully? I can dream. I think.

This is what the ARU are willingly signed up for. I can't, for the life of me, see the logic.

[Bakkies]

Myra told me the best person to send information to is David Carrigy .. Whos Address do you have

Brett Gosper and Alan Gilpin's

https://www.worldrugby.org/news/155091?lang=en

I've only emailed the shared box so far.

Myra is Bill Beaumont's secretary it appears.

[Bakkies]

“Those two and a couple of others have been in our plans for the $5 million salary cap the whole time, so they’ll definitely fit in,” Stephenson said.

Even before you found out that Will Genia was available? Smells like high quality bs to me.

The ARU top up system discriminality ensures the home unions retain there playing power. Rather than move the salary cap up and include the Wallaby top ups as part of the salary cap they have made this payment to the players non-inclusive ensuring that NSW amd QLD can retain star players in their super rugby sides creating an unfair playing field for those two sides. It really is the biggest scam in sport. The players should all be distributed evenly across all 5 teams (when there were 5) and ensuring that the talent was evenly distributed. The fact the FORCE got a grand slam against the other sides in some seasons and romped home with a makeshift squad in their last is testimont to the heart and spirit of this side. With everything stacked against it the FORCE made statement after statement. David vs Goliath. And ultimately the grubby ARU tactics were the only thing that could stop this side from dominating Australian rugby for the next decade.

The key for teams outside of NSW and Qld in regards to getting players on to top ups is recruiting or developing (from your system) young players at the top of RWC cycles and building a Rugby program/culture that entices them to stay. The Force finally was starting to do that with the likes of Hardwick, Coleman, Ruru, Louwrens etc. That's been the secret to the Brumbies getting top ups particularly after the big clean out from the 2011 disaster. Wallabies like Hoiles, Valentine, Giteau, Smith, AAC, Elsom and co left the organisation. In came Kuridrani, Sio, Fardy, Nic White, Butler, Smiler, Mogg, Tomane, Mowen, etc. Apart from Mowen they had little to no experience. Hooper was picked out of club Rugby to cover George Smith who had a rare injury the previous year and Colby Fainga'a was a sick note like his brother Anthony.

They played good Rugby and the first three would have got top ups when their contracts were renewed as they got capped and became regulars.

RUPA will never favour equalisation and a draft which will dictate to players where they will go. A draft was suggested over a decade ago and rejected. The NSWRL implemented a draft but they were taken to court by Terry Hill who was drafted to go to Wests but didn't want to know as Manly was his preference. Hill won the case and the draft was scrapped. I say that is the only reason why the AFL still has one is that it has never been challenged in the courts as far as I know.

The Rebels tried to recreate the Brumbies but it was never going to work as they recruited an unbalanced squad, did it far too late and signed a few d...heads that had reputations for being divisive.

[shasta]

I say that is the only reason why the AFL still has one is that it has never been challenged in the courts as far as I know.
.

Not 100% sure on this but IIRC, the AFL players' association agreed from the get go not to challenge the draft for the overall good of the game. They have been through all the dislocation associated with preferential drafting and salary cap concessions to expansion clubs with a minimum of whingeing for the sake of a shared future vision. And are winning the fight big time.

RUPA is a sad joke. Bunch of East Coast public school prefects helping protect their patch.

[Macattack]

From a news story on Dave W going to the Rebels

Wessels paid tribute to (Rebels CEO) Stephenson for his patience.

“Baden Stephenson took a calculated risk some months ago when he decided to leave quite a number of spots in the playing roster in order to absorb players if the Force were not around,” Wessels said.

“And that was a huge risk because at the time there was a chance we would still be in a five-team model and I think he deserves a lot of credit for taking that risk.

“But it also means that we are able to absorb a lot of the key players that we want into that list within the existing guidelines, which is fantastic.”

Or perhaps the Rebels had good reason to believe they would get to pick the Force clean having been given the heads up by the ERU well in advance - don't forget the Rebels (Cox from memory) claimed to have been told the Rebels wouldn't be cut months ago - while the ERU was bullshitting the world that it could have been us or the Rebels

Hard to distinguish corruption from strategy in this whole mess.

[Bakkies]

The current CBA expires at the end of the year and we don't even know if discussions have got underway. The ARU are so incompetent they probably have forgotten.