QC

[GIGS20]

I'd be happy with another pedestrian Marquee while we develop Stef and JT into a combination to surpass Genia and Cooper. I'm realistic enough to realise that the next coach has a rebuild to do, with the number that left this year, we're going to have to build combinations and depth. JM leaving might give us a new exodus (you never know, it'll depend on who the replacement is) show faith, retain the juniors and build for the future.

[jombi]

Force comes first!

Would anyone here really make a deal with the devil for aus to win the RWC next year if the force lost every game in the Super 15?!

I can't believe people have said country comes first, they are 2 different levels of Rugby and it is the professional era. If the provincial coaches/management can't hold onto players why should they be forced somewhere for the good of the national team? What if Dingo Deans puts Gitaeu at flyhalf again anyway?

Does anyone remember how Mitchell had the Otago coach at the time put Taine Randell at no8 (from the blind) and then didn't pick him at all? Christian Cullen to 13? Just look at the chiefs now with Henry wanting Donald at flyhalf when Delany should've been there all along.

During the Super Rugby season the international teams/considerations shouldn't exist. And I don't just say that as someone who wants the wallabies to lose every game at the pool stages next year, I also think it should apply to NZ/SA aswell.

I don't want 20 players rested next year either, bloody Henry!!!

[PerthGirl]

Jombi, I was madly in love with Taine Randell (LOL) at the time and hated what JM did to him and Cullen but even I'm over that now and I'm sure they are too. I was probably more concerned with the way the NZ rubgy public treated him after the 1999 RWC, some of the comments were outrageous, but life goes on.

[jargan83]

Would anyone here really make a deal with the devil for aus to win the RWC next year if the force lost every game in the Super 15?!

Possibly as it means that NZ miss out again

I do agree with you that if a province can't hang onto a player they should not be forced (for a lack of better term) to play somewhere "for the good of the nation". If Queensland can't hang onto Cooper well then thats their hard luck, it is a professional age these days.

I can't see Cooper leaving Queensland unless he heads overseas because of the court case and lack of ARU top up.

JO'C may end up playing 12 for the Wallabies one day.....why not develop the possible Cooper 10 and JO'C 12 early

[BeeJay]

I doubt Cooper is close to signing with anyone. The ARU component is bound to be a big part of his contract and it would be very foolish to commit yourself to a S15 side before you sign on with the ARU since that would give them the power to give you whatever they want (since you'll be playing in Australia anyway). The ARU won't be giving him a contract until this court business is taken care of so I doubt anyone will know anything until July.

Unless of course he uses the fact he has a S15 contract as a bargaining tool with the ARU - ie he is already committed to staying in Australia. If the offer he gets from whatever club is big enough, it could offset the lower ARU Wallaby top up he might get....?

[AndyS]

I'm still sceptical that QC would be planning to come here. I got the feeling that the Rugby Club was just looking to generate a bit of outrage - seriously, it is Greg Martin (of all people) that has sources deep within the Force structure that can give him the scoop on everyone else?

Even if there was some truth, and I could certainly see the Force management doing their job and putting a contract to him, I still can't see him giving up the pairing with Genia. To be honest I am not sure it would actually be in the best interest of the Force, who should be looking to grow a Turner/JO'C/Hunt grouping (or similar, with Swanepoel, Godwin etc all in the background) into the role. It definitely wouldn't be in the best interests of Aus rugby, as it would be better if all the main candidates and potentials for Wallaby selection are getting maximum game time. But if QC genuinely wants to become a serious player in the Wallaby set-up, he needs to be playing as a senior figure controlling "his" backline. Here, he is very much going to live in the shadow of his mates.

Besides, anyone else think that if he signs here, his court case will suddenly become proof of a poor player culture at the Force?

[jombi]

I'm still sceptical that QC would be planning to come here. I got the feeling that the Rugby Club was just looking to generate a bit of outrage - seriously, it is Greg Martin (of all people) that has sources deep within the Force structure that can give him the scoop on everyone else?

When you consider that half the people at the force ARE from QLD it makes sense that he would have connections.

Turner/JO'C/Hunt grouping (or similar, with Swanepoel, Godwin etc all in the background) into the role.

Why is everyone obsessed with forcing the role of playmaker onto O'Connor? Why can't he be an inside centre or even a traditional second five for his career? It's nothing to be ashamed of!

Besides, anyone else think that if he signs here, his court case will suddenly become proof of a poor player culture at the Force?

If it was a case of drink spiking, which is basically the only way he'll get off then I don't see how even Growden could draw that bow.

[zimeric]

Force comes first!

Would anyone here really make a deal with the devil for Aus to win the RWC next year if the force lost every game in the Super 15?!

I can't believe people have said country comes first, they are 2 different levels of Rugby and it is the professional era.

I think you totally missed my point, and the wider implications of this issue.

1)If the Force recruit QC - it is not necessarily a bad thing for the Force in a direct sense but rather indirectly as it is closing the door on other hopefuls, at Least in the West and thats where the future of Rugby is in Aus (yes i firmly believe this!)
Additionally at a time where the ARU are struggling to get viewing numbers up do you really think Reds fans will be happy, as TOCC said, if Cooper defects it has DIRE consequences for the Reds. The turnstiles at Ballymore and Suncorp will rust up!

2)Yes it is the professional era.. The wallabies get paid dont they?

You ask any player what their ultimate career objective would be and they'd say Playing for Australia in the World cup, not playing for the Western Force. With that in mind the ARU need to keep that dream alive by ensuring a good spread of talent across all 5 franchises and of course keep the public interested in the Wallabies... I can assure you there are probably 5 times more Australians that will watch a Wallabies game than a Super14 match.. so yes of course Country before Club!

3) What the Kiwi's do with their players to rest them is not necessarily what the ARU will do. Besides even if they do, if our teams cant cope in the Super14 without our 22 top players for 3 weeks then Rugby in Australia is worse off than anyone can imagine!

[AndyS]

When you consider that half the people at the force ARE from QLD it makes sense that he would have connections.

Of course, but so would many others. It just seems a little unlikely that, given his oft stated opinions of the Force, it is him alone that folk would talk to.

Why is everyone obsessed with forcing the role of playmaker onto O'Connor? Why can't he be an inside centre or even a traditional second five for his career? It's nothing to be ashamed of!

Of course not, but 10/12 is all about backline control and exploiting opportunities. I would have said 10 learns that best, with 12 tasked more with execution. Giteau himself often stated that he was free to relax playing outside Larkham, and it is why the more junior player generally gets the role.

For mine, the one obsession should be to ensure we are never again put in the position of only having one player capable of playing 10 and no-one else really experienced at it. I would rather see all the main candidates capable and experienced at 10 in Super rugby, with the best fit one playing the position in the Tests with the others still in the frame for 12 (assuming the two playmaker strategy). I would hope never again to see the situation where the Test 10 goes down and they have to rely on an AAC, Gerrard or Mortlock as cover.

If it was a case of drink spiking, which is basically the only way he'll get off then I don't see how even Growden could draw that bow.

Pffft, facts can't be allowed to interfere with a good story

[MI5_Dog]

With that in mind the ARU need to keep that dream alive by ensuring a good spread of talent across all 5 franchises

It's not like there are other Aus Super14 teams that want to stockpile players.

[James]

Why is there this obsession with 'the Wallabies will lose unless Genia and Cooper play together'. They've been playing together for about the last 5 years, it's not like they are a married couple, and they would easily be able to pick up where they left off should either player be with a different team.

Another thing that should be pointed out is that Kyle Godwin is 18 this year, Stefano Hunt 19. They are both at least 2 years off being ready for a full time S14 role. To say we should rely on our juniors is all well and good but grow them into the role don't force them into it.

The reason why Cooper leaving would be a bad thing, as TOCC says, is that with the Reds form this year rugby is seeing a bit of a resurgence in Queensland and it would be a shame for that to only last one year. If Cooper left and the Reds went back to losing most of the time, it would break all those little Queensland hearts . It's been a while between drinks and a bit of a golden period for Queensland would be good for everyone. Having said that, if the Force can't recruit a marquee 10 and the team has another bad season, we might not be able to hang on to all of our talented players (who might I add are nearly all off contract in 2011) and we don't have the junior depth or club system in place that could cope with a mass exodus of players. It's a shame he doesn't have an evil twin (or in his case a good one ) and we could have one each.

[jombi]

if Cooper defects it has DIRE consequences for the Reds. The turnstiles at Ballymore and Suncorp will rust up!

It's a jungle out there! The QRU put themselves in this hole and they should dig themselves out of it. And what about Iaone, he really hit his straps when he was playing for the force, should he be forced back here?

2)Yes it is the professional era.. The wallabies get paid dont they? ... ARU need to keep that dream alive by ensuring a good spread of talent across all 5 franchises and of course keep the public interested in the Wallabies

That's terrible mate! There are 5 times more people watching the wallabies, because they can actually watch the wallabies! If you want to watch the S14 you have to pay $100+ a month for fox, go the pub or come a long to one of my streams!

If anything that line of thinking just makes Cooper coming here sound better for Australian Rugby, since Turner will obviously be a monster and then you have O'Connor sitting outside him.

3) What the Kiwi's do with their players to rest them is not necessarily what the ARU will do. Besides even if they do, if our teams cant cope in the Super14 without our 22 top players for 3 weeks then Rugby in Australia is worse off than anyone can imagine!

Australia has no provincial championship, so they get enough rest at Camp Wallaby.

10/12 is all about backline control and exploiting opportunities. I would have said 10 learns that best, with 12 tasked more with execution. Giteau himself often stated that he was free to relax playing outside Larkham, and it is why the more junior player generally gets the role.

It depends on the team setup though. Just look at Carter, whilst he was learning his craft you had Mauger outside him running the show. Last year Bruce was running the backline from inside centre aswell, which gave Donald more room to run and link up with Kahui.

For mine, the one obsession should be to ensure we are never again put in the position of only having one player capable of playing 10 and no-one else really experienced at it. I would rather see all the main candidates capable and experienced at 10 in Super rugby, with the best fit one playing the position in the Tests with the others still in the frame for 12 (assuming the two playmaker strategy). I would hope never again to see the situation where the Test 10 goes down and they have to rely on an AAC, Gerrard or Mortlock as cover.

The main problem with that is you could end up turning him into a player like AAC, good at every position but not excelling at any.

As I said before Hunt is the future of the force backline, but he is atleast 2 years off. That means we either get someone like Cooper who could hold down the position and play with Hunt, or we hang onto Hill/get another old fella to keep the seat warm.

Forget about the wallabies, the best thing we can have is people fighting for positions at the force. Just look at our halfback stocks now!

[GIGS20]

If it was a case of drink spiking, which is basically the only way he'll get off then I don't see how even Growden could draw that bow.

Matt Henjak.....Ice Throwing.......Apparently something to do with Force player culture!

Lote Tuquiri, same incident nothing to do with him, stays on tour Waratahs totally clean

Double standard much?

[hertryk]

Previous "As I've said before, for all his talent, he is a troubled soul, and therefore trouble for any club that signs him. Would he be playing so well WITHOUT the motivation he now has? As we have shown this season, we have great talent right under our noses. They just need to be given a chance and nurtured. "




I totally agree....

[tic]

Hmm I think there is more chance of Cooper re-uniting with Rabbit at the Reds than anywhere else. Sorry to be harsh, but the Reds are on the up and now have a stable set up on field and off, with very good depth coming through. It is starting to look more like the Brumbies template of old.