Force snatch victory at the death

[no.8]

Ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! We won. Ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! We won. Ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! We won. Ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! We won. Ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! We won. Ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! We won. Ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! We won. Ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! We won.

[Jehna]

OK, here goes:
1) Fava was sin binned, not sent off. Ref had previously spoken to Sharpie about cynical play. Fava was the next to be cynical. He had to go. Sorry. I am as one-eyed as everyone else in here but that was, well, fair enough in the circumstances.

Is cynical play one of the rules that Peter Marshall said would be emphasied more when the new ELV's came in? I have a feeling (but i can't find anything about it) that he said cynical play by defenders, knowing they might only concede a free kick rather than a penalty, could be punished by immediate yellow cards. I just don't remember it being quite so big of a deal prior to this season

Thanks Ecky btw. Much appreciated

[no.8]

Besides the fact the we won. Ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! ha! We won.

WHAT THE HELL IS CYNICAL PLAY????
I have played Rugby for 30 years, I have never been, the people I have played with have never been and the opposition have never been sent for "Cynical" play!
I don't even know what cynical is!
In fact I haven't seen it in the laws and I watched the replay and as far as I could tell it appeared through out the whole line Scott Fava never move.

I dictionaried??!! it:
cyn·i·cal Audio Help /ˈsɪnɪkəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sin-i-kuhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. like or characteristic of a cynic; distrusting or disparaging the motives of others.
2. showing contempt for accepted standards of honesty or morality by one's actions, esp. by actions that exploit the scruples of others.
3. bitterly or sneeringly distrustful, contemptuous, or pessimistic.
4. (initial capital letter) cynic (def. 5).

Isn't it part of your team spirit to only trust your team mates - nobody else?

[laura]

That yellow card was absolute crap in my opinion! The only 2 people who should have got yellow cards are;
-the bloke who tackled Ryan Cross at the beginning and almost knocked him out
-the bloke who tackled Richard Brown and near on strangled him. Thankfully he was binned.

[Ecky]

WHAT THE HELL IS CYNICAL PLAY????
I have played Rugby for 30 years, I have never been, the people I have played with have never been and the opposition have never been sent for "Cynical" play!
I don't even know what cynical is!
In fact I haven't seen it in the laws and I watched the replay and as far as I could tell it appeared through out the whole line Scott Fava never move.
...
Isn't it part of your team spirit to only trust your team mates - nobody else?

Have you ever been sent, or seen a player sent for "professional foul"? Basically the same thing. (see below for more)

Is cynical play one of the rules that Peter Marshall said would be emphasied more when the new ELV's came in? I have a feeling (but i can't find anything about it) that he said cynical play by defenders, knowing they might only concede a free kick rather than a penalty, could be punished by immediate yellow cards. I just don't remember it being quite so big of a deal prior to this season

Dunno if Peter Marshall said it but I know Stu Dickinson, when he was here pre-season to help the lads with the new ELVs mentioned that we'd see a fair bit of it. And the reason is as you say: most sanctions are free kicks so there's reduced scoring chance so we can infringe more. So, if it's deliberate (or cynical), it's a penalty. And if there's repeated infringements, or it was just so stupidly blatant, then yellow card can come out.

Cynical play, or a professional foul if you will, is not in law by name; BUT consider

Law 10 Foul Play:

DEFINITIONS
Foul play is anything a person does within the playing enclosure that is against the letter and spirit of the Laws of the Game. It includes obstruction, unfair play, repeated infringements, dangerous play and misconduct which is prejudicial to the game.

10.2 UNFAIR PLAY
(a) Intentionally Offending. A player must not intentionally infringe any law of the game, or play unfairly. The player who intentionally offends must be either admonished, or cautioned that a send off will result if the offence or a similar offence is committed, or sent off. After a caution a player is temporarily suspended for a period of ten minutes playing time. After a caution, the the player commits the same or similar offence, the player must be sent off.
Penalty: Penalty Kick
10.3 REPEATED INFRINGEMENTS
(a) Repeatedly offending. A player must not repeatedly infringe any law. Repeated infringement is a matter of fact. The question of whether or not the player intended to infringe is irrelevant.
Penalty: Penalty Kick

A player penalised for repeated infringements must be cautioned and temporarily suspended. If that player then commits a further cautionable offence, or the same offence, the player must be sent off.

(b) Repeated infringements by the team. When different players of the same team repeatedly commit the same offence, the referee must decide whether or not this amounts to repeated infringement. If it does, the referee gives a general warning to the team and if they then repeat the offence, the referee cautions and temporarily suspends the guilty player(s) for a period of 10 minutes playing time. If a player of that same team then repeats the offence the referee sends off the guilty player(s).
Penalty: Penalty Kick

A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that would probably otherwise have been scored.

(c) Repeated infringements: standard applied by referee. When the referee decides how many offences constitute repeated infringement, the referee must always apply a strict standard in representative and senior matches. When a player offends three times the referee must caution that player.
10.4 DANGEROUS PLAY AND MISCONDUCT
(k) Acts contrary to good sportsmanship. A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship in the playing enclosure.
Penalty: Penalty Kick

Then take your pick as to which one you'd sin bin Fava for. It's all there in law.

Trust me, I'm a ref!

[NTT]

in favas defence he was only trying to stop a rolling maul from starting so close to the tryline ( a previous force weakness exploited by most tems ) ...im happy to see a yellow card than an opposition try any day....professional foul, cynical foul they're the same thing but an extra 5 or 7 points to the bulls and the force woud've quite possibly lost the game (possibly the most important yellow card of the season?) ......at least steve walsh wasnt as pathetic as the ref in the hurricanes vs sharks match

[laura]

Thankyou for explaining it in basic terms nearthtop, I understand now.

[NTT]

Thankyou for explaining it in basic terms nearthtop, I understand now.

while i love me rugby, some of the laws are too confusing plus im not a fan of longwinded wordings in stuff it confuses high school dropouts like myself

[jono]

and forwards

[laura]

I didn't mean it like that. I love my rugby too, but I'm not so good with the technicalities (spelling?) and I need simple explanations!

[GIGS20]

in favas defence he was only trying to stop a rolling maul from starting so close to the tryline ( a previous force weakness exploited by most tems ) ...im happy to see a yellow card than an opposition try any day....professional foul, cynical foul they're the same thing but an extra 5 or 7 points to the bulls and the force woud've quite possibly lost the game (possibly the most important yellow card of the season?) ......at least steve walsh wasnt as pathetic as the ref in the hurricanes vs sharks match

While I understand and agree with what Ecky's saying re cynical play, my issue is the fact that Fava didn't move in that lineout at all, I looked at the replay and the maul ran into him, not the other way around. His penalty (in my eyes) wasn't a penalty at all and therefore not cynical play, nor a binnable offence. I don't know whether it was a case of mistaken identity, and somebody else was offside, but it sure wasn't Scotty Fava!

I also lstened with interest to the ref's mike on the reply and came away less upset with his officiating of the breakdown, he did let a helluva lot go early in the game, but was talking all the time and the second half, the got a lot of their possession from free kicks for killing the ball. His perfromance was pretty bad with the offside, but I'm a bit happier than I was Friday night!

[NTT]

I didn't mean it like that. I love my rugby too, but I'm not so good with the technicalities (spelling?) and I need simple explanations!

i was agreeing with you mate

[jargan83]

Enough to change your assesment of the ref just before half time GIGS

[GIGS20]

Yeah probably not far from that Jargan, I still reckon he had a crap game, but my halftime assessment was probably......excessive!

The Bulls certainly made the most of his leniency at the breakdown, and I sure would have liked to see him go to the penalty quicker and the card before halftime, it turned out he went to the penalty in the second half and didn't get to the card, but almost every penalty we got in the second half was for killing the ball or hands in the ruck! He wasn't so much a F&%kknuckle as far too forgiving!

[Punkpapa]

Cynical play is actually a big thing. Let's not forget that Rugby is a game built on tradition, and those traditions include good sportsman like behaviour. That is why there are rules on knocking down passes deliberately, knocking balls out deliberately etc. The fact that these are done deliberately is the key. Even with the modified ELV's, there is no excuse for bad behaviour.