Where are they going wrong

[jombi]

Oh dear Lord. I don't think I could handle Eddie Jones. I actually just gagged at the screen. I do not have many happy rugby memories involving him. But McKenzie started to MAKE the finals because he threw all the composure out the window because he knew he was getting the boot. Actually.

It'll take a lot more than that to sell me the idea of Mitch being bad. Sorry

They actually promised him he'd keep his job if NSW made the semi's, then told him he was getting the boot leading into it IIRC. They were still on track before he was given the news.

"I absolutely loathe him for what he did to Randell & Cullen"
Didn't think you needed to spell that out Jombi, it seems to be fairly self evident in any post you have done on the matter and seems to take away your objectivity shown on most other topics.

I've given him the benefit of doubt while he's here in Perth, because I know he was a good provincial coach for Waikato.

But I just can't understand how people would want to keep him or say he's 'good' when he is making the exact same mistakes that got him the boot as allblacks coach.

I love the force just as much as the allblacks, so I think we deserve just as much, not less from coaches & players.

[DR GRAFENBURGH]

The reality is that no coach on the planet would do any better with the playing roster at the Force. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. With the backline the Force has, they'll be lucky to score a try this year. They are rubbish and you can't coach speed and instinct.

[BeeJay]

12 and 13 is an issue, no big ball runners to scare the crap out of defensive lines. (Two big polynesian players needed here, apply at Rugby WA) .

In Staniforth and Cross we have two Wallaby centres. I think the commentators (for a change) have a point - we don't need a flyhalf if JOC plays 10 - he is certainly better than Pretorius would have been, and than Bartholomeusz, Harris and Hill are.
Then fill the fullback and wing positions with younger guys with speed - Spanner is wasted on the wing.
Cummins needs to play himself back into form; we despearately need Shep back at fullback.
Haylett-Petty can do less damage on the wing. And what about Hunt at fullback in the meantime?

[DR GRAFENBURGH]

In Staniforth and Cross we have two Wallaby centres. I think the commentators (for a change) have a point - we don't need a flyhalf if JOC plays 10 - he is certainly better than Pretorius would have been, and than Bartholomeusz, Harris and Hill are.
Then fill the fullback and wing positions with younger guys with speed - Spanner is wasted on the wing.
Cummins needs to play himself back into form; we despearately need Shep back at fullback.
Haylett-Petty can do less damage on the wing. And what about Hunt at fullback in the meantime?

From the darkness a voice of reason

10 JOC
12 Spanner
13 Cross

It makes sense and wouldn't be half bad. Dads army can zimmer frame it to Perth airport and fly away home

[BDAVEY]

The reality is that no coach on the planet would do any better with the playing roster at the Force. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. With the backline the Force has, they'll be lucky to score a try this year. They are rubbish and you can't coach speed and instinct.

u can coach defense and positional play however and thats lacking big time, it as if they are leaving their brains in shed

[GIGS20]

what my comments have said is we will end up like the Reds with Mooney if we throw him out.

Ummm, Reds have done pretty well out of sacking Mooney.

Probably not the best argument you could have made Jazza!

[palitu]

Hunt at full back? he's a touch green i think... it is a very important position!

[zimeric]

Hill 10
Cullett 11
Spannah 12
Cross 13
Hunt at 14
OConnor 15

[jazza93]

Ummm, Reds have done pretty well out of sacking Mooney.

Probably not the best argument you could have made Jazza!

No. i was saying if you sack coaches and just jump into the market without anyone lined to to take over its a good chance you can end up with someone like Mooney.

and it was good like all my arguments.

[laura]

10. JOC/Hill
11. Cummins
12. Spanna
13. Inman/Cross
14. Tatupu/Hunt
15. DHP

So O'Connor might not be a world-beater at 10 but he needs experience around him & Spanna can give him that & support him. Hill on the bench for my 2 cents worth.

Cullet at 11 is inevitable, he's the best we've got and he's not injured.

Spanner should be in the centres, most have written off this season already and Spanna's not going to do any harm in the centres but he will provide the back up & knowledge that JOC needs around him. Plus he's always handy to have running around whether it be on the wing or in the centres.

Crossy or Inman for 13, one on the field and one on the bench. Inman's got the goods that he can more than adequately replace Crossy..I'm just not sure if him or Crossy has earnt the run-on spot though.

14. I'm not really too sure who to put here. I think Tatupu has earnt a place on the field but seems to have been sidelined by all the players we've bought in. He's a good player and has good speed plus he can back up DHP if needs be. Hunt on the bench, I don't think he's quite up for starting yet. I would consider putting Sare on but I'm not a huge fan and I think Tatupu is equivalent if not better.

DHP, keep him in the squad. I think I'm going to have to become an unofficial advocate for him - he has a bad game & everyone calls for him to be dropped. I didn't see the whole game and I know he stuffed up & gifted the Reds a try, but in a losing game he was game enough to try something new. So it didn't work out, but its more than we've seen from other 'established' players who still mucked up! With a fit Sheps, DHP would go to the bench but in Sheps' absence I don't doubt that DHP is our best fullback. Maybe he just needs to learn a bit more composure so he doesn't rush things or get a bit flustered...he'll be right, just give him a chance.

Alternatively I wouldn't mind seeing:
10. JOC/Hill
11. Cummins
12. Tatupu
13. Inman/Crossy
14. DHP
15. Spanna

In saying all that consistency would probably help a bit too. Letting the players get used to a position for more than one game would be good. What ever happened to Ben Whittaker as hooker? Why did we ditch him, he was pretty accurate with the throwing.

[welshrugbyfan]

In Staniforth and Cross we have two Wallaby centres.

Hardly setting the world on fire though.

Put Spanner in at fullback until we get Sheps back. DHP will be good in time but the 15 needs to have experience and a cool head which Spanner has in spades.

Wingers are only in the team to make up numbers and get given tries like the latest Cummins one.

We lack the go forward when the backs get the ball which is the job of the centres. I cringe when the backs get the ball because I know we've got nothing on offer.

Sheehan is a gem and has more fight in him than half the team put together. If we had more like him we'd do well.

[AndyS]

the coach gives the players a game plan before each game, thats his job, i cant see what the game plan was today....

Perhaps, but I'm pretty sure the game plan didn't stipulate handing over 9 lineouts and falling off tackles. The best plan in the world isn't going to help if it isn't executed. Unless you are saying Mitchell should be held responsible for not coming up with a winning plan that makes a positive out of missed tackles, no possession and no set piece?

The ultimate responsibility for the teams performance begins and ends with the coach....He is responsible for everything that happens on that field from the players skill level to their mental state and I say that as an accredited coach.

Look at McKenzie, made the finals and still got the boot!

And how smart a decision is that looking now? I'm sure the Waratahs have no regrets about ditching the "boring" McKenzie for the "attacking" Hickey. I mean, they changed coach and there was an immediate change in style, wasn't there?

Reality was that the Waratahs were in the toilet in 2007 because they lost Vickerman, Kanaar and Dunning early, then Waugh on top. Our injury list is probably even longer and certainly features players no less pivotal, but you are right in that those injuries were McKenzie's fault to the same extent that ours are Mitchell's.

Hmm... What to say? First of all start JOC at 10....when he moved into that position they actually looked like they might do something.

Looked like it, but certainly didn't. J'OC looks good at 10, no doubt, and if we had our pick of all the backs in Australia for him to run with I'd be all for it. But we don't, so the question is whether the available Force backline looks more dangerous with the ball leaving his hands for the other backs to run it forward, or going into his hands for him to run with. But for all those from previous weeks pushing for O'Connor to be moved from 15 and into 10/12 - well, that was it. How did that work for you? I'm pretty sure that was what Mitchell meant when he spoke of concerns regarding the depth to cover him.

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My take on that game - the season was toast going in and is toast coming out. Nothing has really changed.

Whilst it is not that common, that game really can be largely put down to one aspect of play; in this case the line-out. I guess it shows just how crucial set-piece is and I suppose much the same would have happened if we had been shoved off every scrum. Another way of looking at it is that we conceded 10 penalties and 9 line-outs. They might as well be the same thing; either way the opposition goes to touch and comes away with the ball. If we had conceded 19 penalties, I am sure we would be blaming discipline.

Not that it was that alone, but it would be crushing for confidence. It looked that way early to me - they took a penalty to the line and I applauded the intent. But then they immediately conceded the line-out, so the next penalty they went for the points. And so much of their subsequent play looked to stem from a lack of confidence. It is that more than anything that they will have to overcome through the rest of the season, and if they do so the play will come.

There isn't much, but if they can take one thing out of that match it was what happened when they did retain the ball and apply sustained pressure on the line. If they could draw penalties, get a man in the bin and a try against a team in that mood, there is no reason they can't against anyone. They looked capable, they just have to convince themselves that they can do it for 80 minutes.

At the end of the day, let's hope it was just a real bad day at the office. Looking on the funny side, if you subscribe to the idea that any publicity is good publicity, we have at least achieved the sort of awareness that generates contextual jokes - I had one cheeky bugger at work enquire whether Ladies Day was a community support initiative or a recruitment drive...

[travelling_gerry]

Some are calling for the disbanding of the Force.

They were pretty quite when the tahs and reds were in 13th and 14th

[Woody]

14. I'm not really too sure who to put here. I think Tatupu has earnt a place on the field but seems to have been sidelined by all the players we've bought in. He's a good player and has good speed plus he can back up DHP if needs be. Hunt on the bench, I don't think he's quite up for starting yet. I would consider putting Sare on but I'm not a huge fan and I think Tatupu is equivalent if not better.

Alternatively I wouldn't mind seeing:
10. JOC/Hill
11. Cummins
12. Tatupu
13. Inman/Crossy
14. DHP
15. Spanna

.

Finally, a Josh Tatupu fan. 12 or 13, but at the moment 13 is vacant. Cross may be a Wobbly but he has been very very ordinary. Stats show how bad some of these roosters have been. JT got shit on after being surrounded by players playing out of position. Give him a shot with a little quality around him. Hill (biggish, solid) JOC (smallish, fast, elusive) JT (biggish, solid) that'll do me at the moment.

I've tried to keep my gob shut (done quite well really) but what really bugs me is the apparent lack of heart and communication. JM or no JM, the players on deck need to take a friggin good look at themselves.

[Axis]

Some are calling for the disbanding of the Force.

They were pretty quite when the tahs and reds were in 13th and 14th

Won't happen - once again SANZAR need the Western Force so they can televise the games over 4 different time zones - NZ, East Aus, West Aus, SA. Considering the S14 is bankrolled by Pay TV - can't see how they would let the Force dissolve.

What we need is the ARU to stop playing silly and let the Franchises work as businesses rather than be a bit like the NZRU with the All Blacks and a bit like NRL with restrictions on 3rd Party Payments etc. Top ups and all the East Coast favoritism are what is hampering the Force. Sorry - Ranting there - but the ARU seem to be amazingly silent on the Force's dilemmas!