Forceful Stadium Demands

[tragic]

Do the teams not have to put any $$$ towards the stadiums?

Top Secret AFL Expansion Plan:

Step 1: Collect scaredy-cat myopic politicians who have the power to use the public purse to make themselves look pretty and get their names on plaques and stuff.

Step 3: Profit!

[Burgs]

Is Step 2 the "Top Secret" bit

[jargan83]

Tragic has been watching South Park
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[AndyS]

Just Clarifying, RugbyWA are talking about an upgrade to 25,000 not 22,000

Then they are already asking for something more than originally promised. If they are making a case for that, then they must genuinely believe it is the most appropriate number and they don't expect to ever hit the highs (or even averages) of the first two years again.

Mind you, once it is done they would never know if they could have sold more anyway. My dad doesn't mind watching the odd AFL game with my brother-in-law, but hasn't tried for tickets for a couple of years. As he put it, there are only so many times you can stand to be told no.

Maybe it is just me, but I have never understood the "nyah, nyah, you can't have any" school of marketing. If all your seats are sold to members, you will never get a genuine sell-out again because there will always be some that can't make it. You have the money, but when you go to the government and ask for another upgrade they will point to your average 24,000 attendance and say things are fine. AFL games have been effectively sold out here pretty much since I got back in '99 but they are still arguing about what is going to happen. The other risk is that the accountants will get control - 25,000 seats, 5,000 waiting list = raise memberships by 20% to find the balance.

I wonder - did anyone here ride a motorbike while single, get a two seater sports car when they married but wait until the second kid showed up before buying a sedan? Because frankly, we are in that gap between two and four seats and are trying to manufacture a three-seated car.

[shasta]

Because frankly, we are in that gap between two and four seats and are trying to manufacture a three-seated car.

You are probably right. But what if you don't have enough money to buy your own brand spanking new car but somebody is going to fund you a serviceable used model that will get you to work reliably while you try to eventually get a new one? They make it clear that you are not getting a new one now under any circumstances. Should you still stubbornly tell them to shove their offer?

[Burgs]

Unless they are going to help with the fuel to keep the car running (dwindling crowds and interest) then I would remain at dealing hard ball.

I don't want to be driving that Datty 120Y for the next 20 years!

[jargan83]

while in the mean time memberships and crowds continue to drop?

If we stay at Subiaco long enough maybe the 18,033 seats at MES will eventually be enough and the government will turn around and say we don't even need the 25,000 seat upgrade
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[shasta]

Unless they are going to help with the fuel to keep the car running (dwindling crowds and interest)

OK enough of the analogy, Burgs. You need to demonstrate how a membership that may surpass the first season and most or all of the 25000 seats sold out equals dwindling crowds and interest. I've read what you wrote before but it seems like speculation to me (as are membership predictions I suppose).

then I would remain at dealing hard ball I don't want to be driving that Datty 120Y for the next 20 years

OK how? There's driving a hard bargain and there's [insert the beating-head-against-brick-wall thingy that seems to be missing].

None of us wants the lowest common denominator but RugbyWA have to deal with the realities of their situation.

[Burgs]

OK enough of the analogy, Burgs. You need to demonstrate how a membership that may surpass the first season and most or all of the 25000 seats sold out equals dwindling crowds and interest. I've read what you wrote before but it seems like speculation to me (as are membership predictions I suppose).



OK how? There's driving a hard bargain and there's [insert the beating-head-against-brick-wall thingy that seems to be missing].

None of us wants the lowest common denominator but RugbyWA have to deal with the realities of their situation.

Well it's all speculation isn't it Shasta?

My main concerns are growth of the game and crowds, both interelated.

The same people who cite a Government who won't build a suitable stadium also think they will see a rapid expansion to MES happen.
Once (if) we move there, that is what you will have for many seasons to come and the expansion of the code will be totally stymed.
The Gov of the day will find ways to duck and dive and postpone any further expansion until it isn't required anyway.

Using participation figures in our first three years, if we had been at a 22k MES there would have been 84,772 "people" (seats, but that is how they tend to express it) who would not have seen a single match.
A 25k MES would have been a little better at 43,048.

Now, I am yet to hear anyone on this site put there hand up and say "It's ok, I'll take one for the team and stay at home to watch."
Everyone expects to go.
Not everyone, apart for 15% of matches so far, can fit into the magical wonderland of a 22k MES, much less maintain the seating they desire.

The most often cited line of answer given by those who haven't renewed memberships in '07 and '08 is along the lines of "I'll be back when we get a decent ground".
Well, sorry, you won't, which is probably the only thing stopping far more people dropping their memberships for '09.

If people cannot go to matches they will find other things to do with their time that are lost to Union.
Union is a minority sport in this state so comparisons to the way the Eagles and Dockers treat their fans is not relevant, but rest assured they (AFL) will still have waiting lists after the next oval stadium expansion and for the same reason, it will be inadequate. However, in their favour they have tens of thousands of kids and adults playing the sport across the state for 25+ weeks a year.

Union does not have that luxury and therefore must be accesible to anyone shows even the slightest of interest, just as our grass root Union Clubs scramble to sign up anyone with a passing interest in the code.
We must look after our fringe interest people as that is where the future lays, not in the handful of cauliflower-eared, buggered knee'd elder statesmen, there unfortunately just isn't enough of them.
We need to be safe for Soccer mums, tough for League followers and sexy to AFL fence sitters all at the same time, to poach as much support (= dollars and potential players) as possible.

Someone raised another interesting side issue with me the other day.
The North-South aspect of MES will see most of the season being played with the Eastern side bathed in glorious sunlight...straight in your eyes.
However a solution was agreed on that RWA can just redistribute all of the seasons passes so that all those in favour of daylight saving can sit on the East side of the pitch...

A revamped MES will most probably be an enjoyable place to watch a match, if you get the seat you want, if you get a seat and if you have no regard for any of those missing out and being lost to the code.

Beware what you ask for as you just might get it.

[jargan83]

Who wants to bet lower membership and lower average crowds next year while we are at subi?

[tragic]

Who would be kind and generous enough to give us such a wonderful betting opportunity?

[jargan83]

wheres that v-bookie when you need him?

[tragic]

Down at the TAB?

[Darren]

My question from earlier still stands - how is turning people away from a full MES stadium worse than having them not even turn up at all to a half empty Subiaco oval? Where is the rugby growth in that?

[shasta]

Well it's all speculation isn't it Shasta?

My main concerns are growth of the game and crowds, both interelated.

......and I wouldn't disagree with nearly all of what you wrote. But still there is the reality of the current situation and what RugbyWA's stance should be. Given your opposition to compromise at MES, do you think they should......

a) Demand nothing less than a new rectangle
b) Go hand in hand with Andrew Demitriou and argue for the multi purpose job.
or
c) Another alternative you've kept to yourself so far?

I reckon your argument re prospective players being turned off might be speculation though. There are venues around the world that sell out without damaging participation rates in their respective sports. But I accept it may be different here where AFL rules. Who really knows these things.

Your point about the east west aspect is interesting. Lets hope daylight saving comes under some "loyalty for regions" and gets a big flick once and for all.