Giteau to weigh up $10m French offer

[mudskipper]

jargan...once all the firepower linked deals are over and new contracts are drawn up and signed it is then all in the past, But as I understand Gits, Drew Mitchell and Ryan Cross are still on the linked third party deals.

I understand it only John Mitchell and Cam Shepherd have new contracts post firepower. Please tell me if this is not correct.

The new Force sponsors are good and the club has attracted plenty over the past years…

[jargan83]

jargan...once all the firepower linked deals are over and new contracts are drawn up and signed it is then all in the past

The deals are over. Firepower is bust. The only thing that RugbyWA has to do with the whole thing now is they sought permission from the ARU to help those players find new 3rd party deals

you seem to be wanting to dwell in the past while RugbyWA seem to want to move on into the future. Depite the writings of many of the East Coast journos most of the player opted to stay here in the West. Why would they do that if they were 1. Not being looked after finanically and 2. Coach John Mitchell was a twat (you made a referance to Mitchells coaching style in an earlier post and possibly a different thread)

[mudskipper]

jargan this is were we disagree... While Firepower has gone to the wall and there are only 2 parties left in the third party deal, the deals value was made with 3 parties. The players should be offered a new contracts.

The Force should pay the balanced of firepower’s debt to the players but I don’t think the players should be forced to honour the dead deal. However I do believe O’Meara influenced the third party negations so it would be appropriate for a new start. Other wise I see that the Force are holding Giteau to a contract unfairly…

Sometimes there is a difference between doing the right thing and what is legal…Additionally I think Giteau is still after some recompense, I don’t necessarily agree with this expectation, he will have to take a loss just like what the club has done…

[Swee_82]

The Force should pay the balanced of firepower’s debt to the players but I don’t think the players should be forced to honour the dead deal. However I do believe O’Meara influenced the third party negations so it would be appropriate for a new start. Other wise I see that the Force are holding Giteau to a contract unfairly…

So RWA, who were NOT part of these third-party deals should cough up when they go bad, and the people who DID sign them shouldn't be forced to honour contracts that didn't have anything to do with said deal.

The day the Force fail to pay his salary you will have a point, until then, please refrain from peddling this drivel.


I'm starting to understand why we can't resolve this.... something about a battle of wits with unarmed opponents.

[TOCC]

jargan this is were we disagree... While Firepower has gone to the wall and there are only 2 parties left in the third party deal, the deals value was made with 3 parties. The players should be offered a new contracts.

The Force should pay the balanced of firepower’s debt to the players but I don’t think the players should be forced to honour the dead deal. However I do believe O’Meara influenced the third party negations so it would be appropriate for a new start. Other wise I see that the Force are holding Giteau to a contract unfairly…

Sometimes there is a difference between doing the right thing and what is legal…Additionally I think Giteau is still after some recompense, I don’t necessarily agree with this expectation, he will have to take a loss just like what the club has done…

ahhh,

third party deals are exactly what they indicate... they are third party deals
they are not arranged or organised by the RugbyWA...

They are arranged through the player/players manager, yes it is a little questionable as to whether RugbyWA did assist these players in getting these contracts, but at the end of the day RugbyWA are not legally bound by a contract a player signs with a sponsor.

The players manager is more liable then RugbyWA.

[mudskipper]

Sorry I meant to write.... the Force should not pay not pay the balance of firepower’s debt.

[TOCC]

ah right, in which case i do agree with you somewhat, some of these players signed with Force under the pretense they had this third party sponsor, now that they sponsor has left, they should be able to renegotiate there contract.

On the other hand, its the risk the player took when they signed the contract.....

[.X.]

I have deleted a post just because it pissed me off.

Anyone want to have a bet how many are mine?

[jargan83]

jargan this is were we disagree... While Firepower has gone to the wall and there are only 2 parties left in the third party deal, the deals value was made with 3 parties. The players should be offered a new contracts.

The Force should pay the balanced of firepower’s debt to the players but I don’t think the players should be forced to honour the dead deal. However I do believe O’Meara influenced the third party negations so it would be appropriate for a new start. Other wise I see that the Force are holding Giteau to a contract unfairly…

Sometimes there is a difference between doing the right thing and what is legal…Additionally I think Giteau is still after some recompense, I don’t necessarily agree with this expectation, he will have to take a loss just like what the club has done…

The Dead deal between a private company and an indivdual? How is that the responsibilty of RugbyWA? If you have some ACTUAL PROOF of O'Meara influencing 3rd party deals please share it with everyone

The contract between the Force and Giteau would be along the lines of the max $110,000 that a Super 14 franchise can pay yearly.

your full of shit

[mudskipper]

I also think the ARU need to setup a more appropriate third party protocols with more transparency and perhaps set guidelines where the club can be involved in assisting with the third party sponsors negotions because what was meant to happen with the previous protocols clearly didn't. This would protect both the club which is paramount and the young player from the shadow deals being made on the side. I would imagine that the club would have to also assess the inability of the third party sponsor and present that information to the player/agent and the ARU.

I find it amazing that 3 years on from this mess and the ARU haven’t made resolved the issue. I would expect more and more players will have third party deals in the future, even if the amount is small. In theory, Businesses could sponsor an academy player or a new talent like James O’Connor to help set up their career path.

[mudskipper]

Thanks Jargan for your last comment...I think your statement is naive... O’Meara had to step down because of his shadows dealings. He fronted the ARU and because of his deception...You think that was the only one he made? read the following..

Force to front ARU over payments
Gerard Ryle | August 17, 2007

THE top two executives of the Western Force Super 14 team will be summoned to Australian Rugby Union headquarters and asked to explain secret payments the club made to Wallaby players.

In a statement issued last night, the ARU indicated it will also consider an independent inquiry into revelations in the Herald that the Force made secret payments of more than $300,000 last year in breach of the governing body's protocols.

ARU head John O'Neill said he and union chairman Peter McGrath would meet with Western Force chairman Geoff Stooke and the club's CEO, Peter O'Meara, to "put to them the ARU's significant concerns".

A date for the meeting has yet to be finalised.
"Subject to the outcome of that meeting, the ARU will consider referring the matter to an independent judicial committee," O'Neill said. "The integrity of the contracting protocols is paramount."

The Western Force made the secret payments to three Wallabies players throughout 2006, and possibly as late as January 2007, despite the club protesting that the payments relate only to its inaugural playing season.

The Herald can reveal that Nathan Sharpe was paid about $200,000, Scott Fava about $80,000, and Cameron Shepherd about $20,000. Former player Chris O'Young was also guaranteed that the club would find him outside employment worth about $20,000, and he earned most of this in a job secured for him by the Western Force.
Though the deals breached ARU protocols, there is no suggestion the players were aware of any potential breach.

The Daily Telegraph reported yesterday that Sharpe took on a consultancy with a club sponsor, Executive Traders, when he left Queensland to join the Force in 2005. The arrangement was said to have been registered with the ARU, as required. Executive Traders hires and sells mining equipment. It is also a joint-venture partner with another Force sponsor, the controversial fuel technology company Firepower.

But the Herald understands Executive Traders, which declined to comment yesterday, was not a club sponsor in 2005 nor in 2006. And an ARU spokesman said yesterday that the Sharpe arrangement was not registered with it until June 2007. It pertains only to the 2007 and 2008 seasons.

The secret arrangements made by the Western Force date back to the formation of the club, when it was desperate to recruit top-line players. During early 2005, the Force recruited several players and guaranteed to find them paid employment, and even outlined the amount the players would receive.

The club then went further and guaranteed to pay these players the amounts if the employment fell through, which is what occurred. The Herald understands the payments are not shown within the Force's "player costs" for 2006, as reported in their annual financial statements. Instead, they are hidden within another part of their profit-and-loss statement.

The Force have not made their 2006 annual report available on their website, and the publicly available 2005 report has had financial statements omitted. Under the protocols, teams are generally only allowed to pay players $110,000 a year, in addition to a set of agreed extras such as cars and housing allowances. International players also receive additional wages from the ARU. Furthermore, no state union is to be involved in facilitating, procuring or arranging third-party deals as an inducement to sign any player without ARU approval.

The revelations about the secret payments have escalated an existing ARU inquiry into player contract negotiations that began in June. That inquiry followed the publication in the Herald of a copy of an employment offer prepared for NSW forward Al Kanaar that showed potential third-party arrangements. Kanaar was to be paid $30,000 a year to become an "environmental adviser" for one of four companies. One of the companies was Firepower. The other three were Woodside Petroleum, BHP and Rio Tinto.

Force chairman Geoff Stooke told the Herald earlier this year that the club was not involved in underwriting third-party deals to lure players to Perth. He said O'Meara had confirmed to him that he "always complied with the ARU player contracting protocols of the day with respect to third-party arrangements."

http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/s...25.html?page=2

[mudskipper]

This is hard fact...not speculation about the Force and O'Meara dealings...

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...-10389,00.html

Peter O'Meara resigns
January 07, 2008 05:20pm

Extract from article:
Despite big memberships and improvements on field, the Force's off-field dealings - particularly in recruiting high-profile players such as Matt Giteau - put O'Meara at odds with the Australian Rugby Union, eastern clubs and the media.

Following whispers surrounding O'Meara's relationship with Tim Johnston, the boss of major sponsor Firepower, the first major blow came when RugbyWA was hammered with a $150,000 fine by the ARU last year for breaching player contracting protocols.

After consistent denials by O'Meara, the Force was forced to admit to involvement in several breaches of contracting protocols.

These included underwriting third-party benefits to players, paying player wages in excess of the maximum permitted by state unions, inappropriate disclosure of player remunerations and offering third-party benefits to induce a player to sign.

[jargan83]

But you continue to hang crap on all of RugbyWA management, not just O'Meara, and also continue to hang crap on RugbyWA despite O'Meara's resignation

[.X.]

Folks - I think i have figured it out, and I believe that myself and my fellow Force supporters including my good mates Gerry and Jargan owe Mudslipper an apology for the name calling and personal taunts.

Mud- it appears that perhaps you have recently come out of a coma, or perhaps have suffer from a brain condition that has you living 2 and a half years in the past.

Now that we realise this we can assist you, Mud on the top right corner of each TWF web page - you will find the TWF Search Engine. This will allow you to read each and every reaction that the members and fans of the Western Force had when these events actually happened.

why dont you take a couple of days or weeks to read about all the trials and tribulations that have been documented.

We cant really continue to discuss old news - at this rate Christmas next year will be taken up discussing the Quokka-Gate affair.

Mud to help you get up to speed - Firepower is no longer a sponsor, Mr Peter O'Meara is no longer the CEO. and the members of TWF no longer give a shit about these topics.

Mud feel free to discuss anything that happens today or perhaps you would like to speculate about what may happen in the future. But you gotta stop living in the past dude, its not healthy.

[jargan83]

Folks - I think i have figured it out, and I believe that myself and my fellow Force supporters including my good mates Gerry and Jargan owe Mudslipper an apology for the name calling and personal taunts.

for what?

stating the obvious?