Hapless Force sink deeper into the quicksand they're built on

[normie]

Dave Fitter left because he couldn't hack it
Fava left because he couldn't hack it

Just wondering, is this statement confirmed fact or informed opinion?

[chiselhead]

It was well known that Mitchell was asking more of Fitter around the field. Maybe he left because he missed his mummy?

[shasta]

Why oh Why cant ex-Wallabies coaches keep their mouths shut. .”

They can. His name is Rod McQueen and his record does not require him to go on making endless excuses for it, nor to dump on other coaches left right & centre.

[J.d.]

It was well known that Mitchell was asking more of Fitter around the field. Maybe he left because he missed his mummy?

and scott fava?

[joondalup dave]

chisel head, i just dont know what to say in reply to rubbish that you are spouting. the best thing to say is some people act and others talk.

you talk.....

if you ever set foot on a field in this standard of rugby i can only tell you that you might have a different opinion

i think if you want to be on here with a serious and valid point of view try doing so.

my son says more mature things and he is 12.

[waratahjesus]

I wonder - I think a lot of people forget that he wasn't just hired as a coach, able to walk in and just focus on getting the best out of an established player group. He and the whole EWF team were tasked with setting up a team structure from scratch in a location with no established professional structure. That includes all of the support structures that people from established rugby heartlands would take for granted and probably don't even notice. I doubt anyone, maybe even those that took it on, really knew what it would take.

It may be anecdotal, but I do remember hearing somewhere that what blew the interview panel away with Mitchell was that he was able to show structures and training plans for all levels of rugby, not just S14. The implication was that the rest either couldn't (and therefore wouldn't be able to make it work), or didn't (meaning they didn't even understand the job).

im aware he was setting up a team andys, im saying the crap being sprouted that mitchell was the only coach in the history of history who could have got this job done is over the top. he was the best available that doesnt mean he still is. he didnt build a team of nobodies, the first year was a steep learning curve for a team of fringe players but then the force recruited like mad, he has a team of names people seem to forget that. and the up and comers he turned into wallabies were marked that way when he got them, its not like he picked them off a street corner as homeless bums they had already been in the junior development programs and academy sides. he is a decent coach, but he had no runs on the board in terms of starting up a team from scratch and you can actually argue if he has done a good job or not at doing it, if the force stay under his control this year and fail to make the finals, regardless of his technique questions need to be asked if he can get them to the next level or not. there are alot of coaches out there with alot of different view points, regardless of player revolt, mitchell should be on a warning this year to get the job actually done!

[chiselhead]

chisel head, i just dont know what to say in reply to rubbish that you are spouting. the best thing to say is some people act and others talk.

you talk.....

if you ever set foot on a field in this standard of rugby i can only tell you that you might have a different opinion

i think if you want to be on here with a serious and valid point of view try doing so.

my son says more mature things and he is 12.

I didn't say it wasn't a hard way to make a living. I didn't say it was easy. I think that if you are employed to play professional rugby, you shouldn't whinge and complain because the coach is trying to get you fit and questions your committment when you turn up to training drunk.

Thanks for the personal attack

You dropped your dummy

[blueandblack]

"Hapless Force" sell out game in proper rectangular stadium and have a generally great game. "Players openly support their coach by signing their names on a fan-sign saying so, and go around thanking all the fans. All viewers have a great night out watching rugby in Perth.

[James]

I think JD (Joondalup Dave) you'd have a much more credible argument if you could provide some kind of idea of exactly what Mitchell has done. You are pretty defensive of the players.

It is a fact that Fitter wasn't up to Super 14. There had been numerous headlines of 'Get Fitter Fitter' and other poor jokes. It is also a very reasonable opinion that Fava wasn't right for a fledgling rugby club's culture. Chiselhead is quite right if a little blunt.

WJ I don't disagree with anything you are saying but can you make a suggestion of who the Force should've recruited instead of Mitchell?

And finally for anyone trying to compare Robbie Deans to John Mitchell- don't bother. Deans is the national coach. He is the be all and end all. You can't start a player revolt against him even if you wanted to. You just accept what he says or you don't become a Wallaby which is the peak. Super 14 coaches are in a much different position as most players have greater ambitions.

[waratahjesus]

I think JD you'd have a much more credible argument if you could provide some kind of idea of exactly what Mitchell has done. You are pretty defensive of the players.

It is a fact that Fitter wasn't up to Super 14. There had been numerous headlines of 'Get Fitter Fitter' and other poor jokes. It is also a very reasonable opinion that Fava wasn't right for a fledgling rugby club's culture. Chiselhead is quite right if a little blunt.

WJ I don't disagree with anything you are saying but can you make a suggestion of who the Force should've recruited instead of Mitchell?

And finally for anyone trying to compare Robbie Deans to John Mitchell- don't bother. Deans is the national coach. He is the be all and end all. You can't start a player revolt against him even if you wanted to. You just accept what he says or you don't become a Wallaby which is the peak. Super 14 coaches are in a much different position as most players have greater ambitions.

im not saying the force shouldnt have recruited mitchell, im saying he might no longer be relevent (infact if 30 players did sign a petition to have him removed then he isnt releveant to the organisation) and im saying, that the people here that call him a super coach and say he is the only person that could have gotten the force to the point they are cannot back that argument up with any fact.

john mitchell is a coaches coach, the force would have done well to employ a rugby manager to oversea the teams future and a head coach to work in tandom, having a john connelly as a team manager would have done more for the culture of the club and prevented a few off field dramas for instance.

im not bashing john mitchell, im saying he had an opportunity to do something that few coaches have been given the chance to do, to say he is the "only one" capable of doing this is utter crap!

[James]

im not saying the force shouldnt have recruited mitchell, im saying he might no longer be relevent (infact if 30 players did sign a petition to have him removed then he isnt releveant to the organisation) and im saying, that the people here that call him a super coach and say he is the only person that could have gotten the force to the point they are cannot back that argument up with any fact.

john mitchell is a coaches coach, the force would have done well to employ a rugby manager to oversea the teams future and a head coach to work in tandom, having a john connelly as a team manager would have done more for the culture of the club and prevented a few off field dramas for instance.

im not bashing john mitchell, im saying he had an opportunity to do something that few coaches have been given the chance to do, to say he is the "only one" capable of doing this is utter crap!

All I want to know WJ is who you appointed coach. You say that they say he's the only person who could've gotten the job done without facts to back it up. Give us some names to prove there are no facts.

On a completely unrelated topic, where has Chook gone? We've had a major off-field drama and I don't remember hearing from him in 6 months to put his 10 cents in.

[waratahjesus]

sorry mate, not having a go, can you explain what your asking again?

im saying, that blindly backing john mitchell as the "only one" is without reason or fact, are you wanting me to name other coaches that could have gotten the job done? i can, but i dont know who was off contract etc, ive said previously that he may have been the best at the time but that doesnt mean he still is!

[zimeric]

im really interested to find out what comprises of a "vote of no confidence"

was it one of those culture surveys that was product by "leading teams"
or was it merely a " we the playing group hereby pass a vote of no confidence in our coach" type petition.

somewhere i think the truth has been blurred, anyone have a better idea? anyone find that laptop that went missing

[chiselhead]

Of the candidates that applied for the job, J. Mitchell was first and daylight second for the position. Sure there are other coaches in the world with his qualifications but none of them applied. It came down to a suburban coach from Randwick ( an ARU attempt to control rugby in the west ) or the best man for the job.......an ex allblack coach who knows rugby as well as anybody on the planet with a plethora of international coaching. He was assistant coach for England before he took over the allblacks. He was and still is the man. The Force have built and recruited well. They play a great style of rugby and if there are problems we have a great coach and mentor to fix it.

Australian rugby has been off the pace for 8 years. Our fitness levels and core skills have been below par. The kiwis know rugby better than anybody and they play rugby the way it should be played.........tough uncompromising, brutal but with flare. Jokes aside, it is an aberration that they haven't won the world cup for 2o years because they are the benchmark by which every other national team measures itself

Listening to Deans and Mitchell talk rugby has opened our eyes to the little things that are missing from our national game that the kiwis take as standard. It should have opened our eyes.

Rugby in the west has an opportunity to build a rugby culture and tradition free of the internal strife politics and biases of the eastern "old school tie" stiffs that have poisoned and stifled rugby in this coutry.

Mitchell is the mesiah

[James]

sorry mate, not having a go, can you explain what your asking again?

im saying, that blindly backing john mitchell as the "only one" is without reason or fact, are you wanting me to name other coaches that could have gotten the job done? i can, but i dont know who was off contract etc, ive said previously that he may have been the best at the time but that doesnt mean he still is!

Yeah sorry typo. Just wanted to know who you would've appointed coach- but as you say you don't know who was off contract etc. If Mitchell was to go now then WJ who do you think should take his place?