Force v Reds

[wholetruth]

Masirewa, who was hooked by our great tactician after being the only lad who looked like making a break.


I hear he had a hand problem - not enough to keep him out this week but pretty badly bruised - so possibly the right decision. Just saying.

[boof1050]

There's 2 coaches in the comp who've got the pressure on to perform. now there's only 1 left. How long before the discontent gets too much and forces the decision on the coaches future.

[whodunnit]

There's 2 coaches in the comp who've got the pressure on to perform. now there's only 1 left. How long before the discontent gets too much and forces the decision on the coaches future.

So right.

[Alison]

How long does Foley have left on his contract? (Honest question, not a comment on his ability)

[andrewg]

How long does Foley have left on his contract? (Honest question, not a comment on his ability)

In Feb 2015 it was extended to end of 2017 SR season - as was Dave Wessels and Kevin Foote (and Matt Hodgson).

[vulcan]

why do you keep blaming the coach when players cant pass or catch

[GIGS20]

why do you keep blaming the coach when players cant pass or catch

Surely part of the blame lies with whoever is the skills coach?

But the blame should fall pretty squarely on everyone in the organisation if it's basic skills that aren't up to scratch.

[WFDom]

We haven't got an attack coach have we? let alone a skills coach.

We're apparently playing an attacking game..... implemented by 3 defensive minded coaches.

Does that work?

[Reds81]

To Andrewg,

My point is, most sides at this level don't flood the ruck with bodies in attack or defence unless needed. In fact, teams usually have a carrier plus 2 or 3 if necessary. In d , the tackler and one other, when a lost cause, they want more in the defensive line. So whilst I acknowledge your effort in the stats analysis, just something else for you to ponder.

Now having a go at your endeavours, but just something to consider. I do appreciate your input on the site.

[choice]

An ugly win is still a win. But to me it is obvious that the WF have no confidence in defending the counter attack, why else would you use grubber kicks into touch after a few attacking phases.

[Beauregard]

Masirewa, who was hooked by our great tactician after being the only lad who looked like making a break.


I hear he had a hand problem - not enough to keep him out this week but pretty badly bruised - so possibly the right decision. Just saying.

If that was the case then I stand corrected - but still.. stylish player and one we need on the field.

[Beauregard]

why do you keep blaming the coach when players cant pass or catch

What an awesome comment - let me think why.... Oh yes.. the coaches are supposed to work on ... whats the word.... skills I think which include catch and pass. If they are sending players out on a SuperRugby field that do not have the prerequisite skills then even more of a crime than just being shite tactically. Duhhhh.

[andrewg]

To Andrewg, My point is, most sides at this level don't flood the ruck with bodies in attack or defence unless needed.

Totally agree. I've never said that it's JUST about the numbers. It's about being at the right rucks, at the right time and with sufficient impact to be EFFECTIVE. To actually achieve a positive outcome at each ruck. That may be to slow the ball down to enable your defence to get organised etc. It may also be to earn a turnover - which Hodgo and Pocock do better than most and Hooper has stopped doing much at all. With Hodgo and Pocock it's all about picking the right ruck, have the right timing, technique and strength and being supported by others when needed.

For the Force I'm more interested in who is contributing to the ruck effort and who is leaving the ruck work to others. It's hard to judge as we don't know the game plan nor the coaches instructions.

However, I can't imagine that Foley wants Mafi to have only 10 ruck involvements and make only 3 tackles in 54 minutes.
Similarly, it's great to see that Coleman has increased his work rate, putting in a solid ruck effort and an 80 minute effort.

Nevertheless, in the RWC, the All Blacks overwhelmed the Wallabies at the breakdown with numbers/support, effort and technique/skills.

Part of what Michael Foley has brought to the Force this year is improved line speed and speed of support to the breakdown. Some may have noticed that it's not just a case of leaving the support to the Back Row. Support is coming from the closest players to the ruck.
They showed this at the trials and we're seeing glimpses in the matches.

I'm still positive with the changes that have been made and the evidence of ongoing improvement.
Yes, the squad has been working hard on the training track but the new skills have to be honed in real match conditions. That will take some time (but I hope it's SOON).

FOOTNOTE: I've just completed collecting the ruck involvement data for the Reds against the Force.
Surprisingly, they show about the same number of involvements as the Force. However, the Force earned 14 Turn Overs versus the Reds 3.
And our Backs earned 6 of these TOW. How good is that??? Forward 8 TOW to Reds 1 TOW. Our Back Row 6 TOW to Reds 1 TOW. There were certainly some good aspects of this game.

There's two very good examples of what I call "chasing number" players - seeking ruck involvements, so that they appear to be doing the job, while having little impact.
Compare these numbers with the Force numbers - especially Cowan and Millar. It's Millar's work rate around the park which impresses Foley - not just his work in the scrum (But he needs to improve his tackling efforts). Cowan made more tackles than Holmes and Daley combined.



Both of these players show a similar profile:

Most involvement in rucks in Attack with limited involvement in rucks in Defence. Neither earned a Turn Over or provided significant cleanouts on a regular basis.
In support of the Reds' ball carriers they stay close to the attacking channels.
They make contact with a good number of rucks but in both cases they arrive late (they are Props after all) but importantly have little impact (around 50-60% of the time). Very often they aren't even watching the progress of the ruck or where the ball is going (often looking the other way) and usually just standing, unbraced, with their hand on a mate's back or bum.
IMO, both of these players would be better staying on the line to be available when needed as their response time should ruck conditions change is too slow.
Not surprisingly, the tackle count for both of these players is amongst the lowest.
However, they are constantly being praised for their scrum efforts. Today's game needs more than just good scrimmagers.
Perhaps they too are working to the coaches orders and the game plan. (???)
IMO they have both become lazy players and I'd look to the future and choose Fa'agase and Talakai over both of them.

I'm pleased that none of the Force Forwards show these type of stats. But, unfortunately a couple get close to these type of stats from time to time (and particularly last year when the team needed them due to Hodgo's absence).

PS: I'd hate to have the microscope put on me , and be exposed at work, like these guys. But hey, they're in the professional entertainment and past time business not me. :-)

[StimpsonJCat]

Take an ugly win but this game was an advert for any other code of football.

[GIGS20]

However, I can't imagine that Foley wants Mafi to have only 10 ruck involvements and make only 3 tackles in 54 minutes.

I would suspect that the number of tackles expected would be inversely proportional to the number of rucks hit (for the most part)

ie if you're going to shirk the work at the ruck, you'd better be making tackles to counter that!