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Was very interested to hear this from Mr X. I've thought about this quite often lately. It's a challenge and, as I've had explained to me, with that tradition comes the right to accept and answer.Originally Posted by MR X
I think his idea has great merit. At least in answer to the traditional Ka Mate. It's one of the icons of the game IMO.
But another thing I've thought about lately is that the All Blacks have seen fit to depart from that tradition and decided to invent a couple of their own to better reflect the large number of Pacific Island All Blacks. I'm not sure the same respect is warranted.
It seems to me these "hakas" have become more a motivational tool. More "theatre" than tradition. What did that Kiwi journo call it the other day? Something about pouting and prancing?
i agree that the haka has to be answered, and not with waltzing matilda
mabey somthing like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmy6OaZEAhE
but in all seriousness the wallabies must come up with some rebuttal to the haka which is not a dis but an acceptance of the challange as well as showing we are seriously pumped about the game at hand.
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What I'd like to see is the lads stand as one and, when the ABs take their step/s forward, the Wallabies step forward as one.
Brian O' Driscoll tried it at one match - sort of fell flat - but apparently the traditional approach is to pick up a blade of grass and offer it to the Kiwis - thus accepting the challenge
prehaps the real Kiwis can explain what is supposed to happen
PS liked the video - suspecting that it was not shot in Scotland as the icy winds would have diminished the effect![]()
61 years between Grand SlamsWas the wait worth it - Ya betta baby
I remember some heated debate about this last year however, while I respect the custom and culture of the haka etc I believe that it is losing its relevance and, as you suggest shasta, is more of a self motivational tool than the genuine "challenge" it is portrayed to be.
Two events occurred recently to diminish the place it holds, in my eyes at least, the invention of a new haka and the ridiculous spectacle of the fearsome All Blacks performing the haka in the changeroom.
"Bloody oath we did!"
Nathan Sharpe, Legend.
Traditionally during a Haka they would lay a spear on the ground, by the opposition picking up that spear they were accepting the challenge.
80 Minutes, 15 Positions, No Protection, Wanna Ruck?
Ruck Me, Maul Me, Make Me Scrum!
Education is Important, but Rugby is Importanter!
TIF, mabey they could use a handbag instead?![]()
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80 Minutes, 15 Positions, No Protection, Wanna Ruck?
Ruck Me, Maul Me, Make Me Scrum!
Education is Important, but Rugby is Importanter!
Didn't the AB's complain not so long ago when someone "accepted" the challenge by walking up and going eye-to-eye with his opposite number during the haka? Was that O'Driscoll in the Lions tour?
We can't then be expected to "accept" the challenge if the AB's get precious about it - unless it is only theatre these days...
I also have a recollection of a WA state player (ex Kiwi - Maori type) doing the same thing when the AB's played WA quite a few years ago. I had always thought it was Gavin Bermingham (Birmingham?) but read fairly recently it was Rick Smith.
a) Can anyone (as old as me or older) remember this?
b) Did Gavin do it first, then Rick on another occasion?
i vaugly remember aussie warming up while they did it and coping a shalacking and we all remember willie masons black eye
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And was it Sam Scott-Young who winked at his opponent during a haka too?
[QUOTE=Krusher]i agree that the haka has to be answered, and not with waltzing matilda
mabey somthing like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmy6OaZEAhE
QUOTE]
Gold!
TQ1's right though - you wouldn't want to do that at Murrayfield - unless you used the sporran as a warmer!![]()
Keeping the Faith ... right here in Perth!
Interesting point. Good to see via Mr X that some of the people at the sharp end of Oz Rugby give this matter some thought as well. But it sounds as though maybe even members of the ARU board might be a little unsure what's acceptable to the mighty All Blacks. So how could the players from all the other nations be expected to know? Let alone the punters.Originally Posted by Ecky
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But surely standing virtually toe-to-toe & eyeballing them is OK. That's what Mr X reckons and I'm with him.
Yes, Rick Smith did challenge the All Black haka when they played WA in (I think) 1992. I was Rick's fiance at the time and remember a number of vitriolic pieces written by sports reporters who had absolutely no understanding of haka protocol or history and certainly never bothered to ask either Rick or anyone else with that knowledge.
Rick is part-Maori and certainly knows the traditions associated with the haka. The All Blacks at the time were quite put out as it was the first time they had been challenged. I spoke to the great All Black flanker Michael Jones at the post-match function and he was quite upset about it which I found ironic as he is Samoan!
the french did pretty well at challenging the haka at RWC2007, they got right in thier faces. and the result went le blues way...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj9cboaps68
i could be wrong here but didn't the welsh want to do a response of some sort a few years ago?, the all blacks didn't want this so they did the haka in the changerooms......