Oh Yes, We're The Great Pretenders, Ooo, Ooo, Ooo

[fulvio sammut]

Another round starts tomorrow night, and all the predictions the pundits (including myself) made a week ago have been turned upside down. Teams that should have lost won, and vice versa.

But despite this, a curious possibility has arisen from last week's fixtures, and will be confirmed after this week's round.

Last weekend, Wanneroo fielded a viable first and second grade team, but forfeited thirds and fourths.

Joondalup, spitting distance up the road, with no top grades, fielded competitive third and fourth grade teams, and I believe, colts.

Rockingham ran on with strong first and second grade outfits, but were unable to field thirds and fourths or colts, while Mandurah, sharing the same catchment area, were able to field successful teams in all these lower grades, with no hope in hell of fielding a first or second grade.

Now, you don't have to be an oracle or a guru to work something out from these results.

What I work out is that these clubs are feeding off each other's carcasses, and that instead of there existing one strong, all encompassing club in each area, we have four, debilitated half clubs, competing against each other in each zone, and ensuring mutual destruction in the long term. A rugby cold war taking place before our eyes.

I appreciate that the junior clubs in each of these zones were established by disaffected members of the seniors, but surely this was long enough ago in each case for the personal issues to have dissipated in significance, for common sense to prevail, and for single, strong, all encompassing clubs to arise from the ashes of ruffled egos.

Here's a novel idea. How about some sensible discourse taking place, RugbyWA showing some leadership and ability to make hard decisions, and some rationalisation of the senior competition being put in effect.

How about some of the never will be clubs, and I include Southen Lions in this fraternity, reverting to what they fervently and piously professed they would always be when they initially sought acceptance into the WARU, that is, restrict themselves to the developement of juniors, and stop disrupting the senior competition by then drawing the strength from the established clubs at the lower level in the weaker zones.

We now have the circus, that in a week's time, Palmyra will have it's first and second grades playing at Rockingham, it's two fourth grades playing at Joondalup and Wanneroo respectively (if they get a game), it's colts playing elsewhere, and it's under 18's playing somewhere else. Check out the fixtures on the RugbyWA website if you don't believe me.

This is bullshit. Internecine warfare between local groups is now seriously affecting the broader rugby community.

Get real, or get out.

[Thequeerone]

Fulv - I'll try and clock it but the distance between Wanneroo'shouse Club and Joondalup is about 15 km remember Wanneroo's Clubhouse isn't in Wanneroo township but further south on Hepburn Avenue - Joondalup new clubhouse is 4 stops up the freeway at Moore Avenue and if the new clubhouse doesn't open soon they will continue to play at Iluka which is another stop north on the freeway. - how close are you to your neighbouring rugby Club - How large would you like these cachement areas to be in practice?

- not sure how far Wanneroo is from it's nearest neighbour but between Joondalup and Yanchep there are no more clubs apart from the Junior Club - think that is about 40 km and there must be 10 new suburbs up that way.

PS Fulv - if you have lads backing up for each other give em a good 40 mins to get from Wanneroo to Joondalup tell em to use the freeway as Joondalup drive ( by the shopping centre can be like St Geogre's terrace at high noon on a Saturday)

[chertubler]

rocky had a bye last week in the 4th grade had 30 turn out for 4ths again for training last night so numbers for them looking good.
have tried to hold meetings with mandurah in the past but as you stated bitter old players don't want to move forward.

[palitu]

to a lot of players, they play for their team... ie i go for the aussies!

they aren't gonna just get up and change... get real ya whinger.

Please tell me the distance between all the western suburbs clubs, and the % of their players that come within their own catchments...

I live in South Lake, and play for the goats, because that is MY team...

[RumourMonger]

You make a good point Fulvio. The better prepared clubs are being penalised because others can't get their act together.

I've checked the draw and Palmyra has teams playing at Joondalup (U20), Perth-Bayswater (4th Blue), Success (3rds), Rocky (1sts, 2nds & 4ths) and Mandurah (U18) all on the same afternoon.

Why? Because Rockingham can't field teams in most grades.

By the letter of Rugby WA's Competition Rules and my reckoning, Palmyra is the only club to satisfy all of the requirements to be a Premier Grade Club.

I reckon some of these clubs are manipulating the system and picking and choosing which competition they want to enter in some misguided attempt to be competitive in something. Eg If Rocky has over 30 4th grade players, why can't they field a 3rd grade. Or why does Perth-Bayswater not have 3rd or 4th grade but have a very strong 4th grade blue side with good numbers. Something fishy here.

One Premier Grade club in the northern suburbs and one in the far south is the way to go otherwise growth will be stifled for years to come.

[palitu]

yes, should have a team in the highest comp they can. 4th is not rocket science...


and WTF is the deal with 2 3rds and 2 4ths... We are all adults, and being in a 6th grade noes not bother me!

its a shambles at the moment... piss off the colours and count to 6, then you'll have a comp that you can under stand...

note - i must be in a shitty mood today. sorry bout that...

[Darkness]

Rugby WA needs to go down to Rockingham and Mandurah and knock their heads together and broker some sort of deal that will see both clubs continue to develop juniors but enter one combined set of senior teams, then they would be competitive and sustainable. It would provide the much sought after development pathway as well and hopefully limit the leakage of quality players to more competitive set ups.

Both Rocky and Mandurah would be in a sense feeder clubs / shareholders in a southern franchise with a marketable name (say Southern Storm or whatever).

The go up to Wanneroo and Joondalup and do the same to them.

[The Scot]

Well done fulvia - stirring it up again without having the real facts - rumours are not facts - In the last 2 years wanneroo and cottesloe have reaped the benefits of having Joondalup in the competition - they have managed to get over 30 players between them from Joondalup - either using false promises or disenchanted parents who swallow the bullshit that is put out there about how great it is playing in the premiership

The big question is this

1. How many home grown players who have played with the top 5 clubs since they were 8 do the top five have taking the field this weekend - less than 10% - a one in 10 retention rate - the remainder have been recruited from other clubs around the world. - Yet all of those clubs have had juniors for over 20 years.

You talk about the outer areas teams taking players form the premiership - Garbage - lets get real - an example !

2. This week Cottesloe informed the union that they would field 2 under 18 teams not bad in a year from a point where they had one under 16 team last year ? What clubs did they come from - because they certainly are not home grown by cottesloe -

Catchment - you have read my other comments - Who has the largest catchment area in Perth ? Look at the maps - It definitly is not Nedlands , Western Suburbs, Cottesloe, Associates , They have an area between them less than the the CBD - So where do the Union have the most to gain - from Wanneroo in the eastern edge of Marangaroo (they are not in Wanneroo as was pointed out) in fact they are 5 km from Wanneroo - to Joondalup in Joondalup - then Perth out to Kalamunda and down to Palmyra and then south to ARKS - then Rockingham and Mandurah - in between the Lions and Curtin fighting in the same 10km area -

It does not take a genius to wake up to the fact that the largest area could be that of Joondalup (working in hand with North Coast) then as stated Wanneroo if they use the area to the east properly - Perth who have never used the area to their east but should - Kalamunda who will eventually swallow Midland and ARKS who are waiting for a growth spurt in the south. Even Palmyra will suffer from lack of growth in the terms of population, but the demographics show that the older residents are leaving the Canning to Palmyra to Fremantle area and that it will become younger again.

Over the next 10 Years the union and ultimately the Force will have the most to gain by developing a Premier club in the North West

By the way Fulvia - do not ask the question why Wanneroo failed to play 3 and 4 last week - ask where they have gone and why - I have no doubt that they will be back but it does beggar the question?

Reality of it is the inner clubs suck the life out of the outer clubs youth programs and in that way they stifle the development, plus the distances those kids travel will kill them off out of the game eventually, when university hits, work requirements , apprenticeships, travel will be the last thing they want to do and unless the originating club can draw them back they are gone from the game

The question you really need to ask is why do we have 5 clubs in a 20 square km area - and how are they developing the game -

How many home grown are playing for them - and what percentage did they personally develop

The Scot

[Hansie]

The problem is not juniors or seniors but the transition.

For years Soaks had huge junior numbers - in 2011 No under 18 team

Under 18 when the kids leave school they follow mates, they get lured by extra scholarly activities, they move out of home - HOW DO WE SECURE THESE GUYS.

Uni do it through scholarships, and of course being Uni. Nedlands and Cott do it through coaching at PSA Schools ( cott better than neddies).

Let no one try and tell me it's because these guys want to improve their rugby.

Neddies appointed as head coach under 18 - probably the most experienced under 18 coach anywhere in Australia, included were reduced subs, free Skins and a dedicated training session with Robbie Deans. 2 sessions outlining goals, history, tours to Denmark and possibly end of season to Malaysia. Letters were sent to every 1st XV captain at every Rugby playing School in WA ( obviously via the School's sports masters - hoping that they'd do the right thing) Guess what - No under 18 team at Neddies in 2011.

So, irrespective of whether you like Neddies or not, under 18's in Perth not affiliated with any club have no desire to improve their rugby.

There is no club in Perth with an under 18 International level 3 coach with assistant coach WA's schoolboys assistant coach, a session with the Wallabies coach, opportunity to watch and mingle with Premier Grade players who populate Perth Gold. You have to conclude under 18 boys are not keen to learn from the best.

[RumourMonger]

Or then again, maybe they just don't want to play for Neddies!!

[The Oracle]

Mr Scot,

Almost everything in your post is factually incorrect.

The only thing that resembles the truth is your admission that you don't have to be a genius to write posts on this website.

Has anyone ever told you that your rantings are very similar to those of a certain Jock Tiernan who used to reside in the northern suburbs?

Why reference places like "Marangaroo" when no-one would know or care where it is.

Suspect I got out of the wrong side of the bed like Mr Palitu however some things need to be said.

PS Is "Fulvia" the female form of "Fulvio"?

[normie]

to a lot of players, they play for their team... ie i go for the aussies!

they aren't gonna just get up and change... get real ya whinger.

Please tell me the distance between all the western suburbs clubs, and the % of their players that come within their own catchments...

I live in South Lake, and play for the goats, because that is MY team...

Go, man, go. Show the passion, live the dream, kiss the emblem on your jersey when you score a try. Don't let the fire go out!

[palitu]

Go, man, go. Show the passion, live the dream, kiss the emblem on your jersey when you score a try. Don't let the fire go out!

fyi, did you know there is a goat jersey on Neighbours??

what other clubs have that sort of international exposure???

@Oracle, i have been to the pub and am feeling better
How many players do the clubs in the western suburbs have playing for them that are from there catchments? I cannot see that there are many? So i think (and so does the Scot) that trying to argue that Rocko and Mandurah and Joondalup and Marangaroo (go to google maps instead of bitching) should merge due to them taking players from each other is stupid and something a politician would do. use a decent argument.

[The Oracle]

Now, how do I keep this simple for you Mr Palitu..........

I am not actually disagreeing with you. For example, Nedlands, I'm reliably informed has no player playing for it that actually lives in that postcode (6009).

Some of the facts and figures being quoted by Mr Scot are totally incorrect and in some cases, 180 degrees from the truth. The points would be more credible if the facts were accurate is all I'm saying.

The sentiment is sound and I am not questioning the passion for the game Mr Scot or you have.

Unlike you, I can't spend the day at the pub. I will however, enjoy a quiet ale or two this evening.

[palitu]

yes, fulvia is the female version of fulvio.

fair enough, your post made it sound like you disagree with all and that almost everything he said is incorrect, with out actual specifying the facts or rectifying them.

but the highanders will be on in ten, so no point me starting argument.