Vice-captain Lote a mixed message

[Jehna]

Is there a reason that one of the VC's can't be on the bench? Or do both the VC's need to be in the starting line up?

[gustafsl]

I don't even think they have to name vice-captains. Just looked at the IRB laws and it basically says...the captain is a player nominated by a team and is the only player allowed to consult with the referee. The captain is also required to choose an option when a penalty is awarded. There is nothing in there (from what I can see) that says anything about vice-captains. If the captain is off the field then the referee will ask the team who the new captain is and they can pick anyone. Guess by naming a vice-captain it tells all the other players this is the captain if Smith goes off.

But naming a 2nd vice-captain just seems to be a tool to inflate or boost up a players ego. If you think about it, when the World Cup started, Waugh had no spot in the starting team so they name him vice-captain to make him feel better. Now Lote is doing nothing so they name him vice-captain basically saying 'we don't care what anyone says, you are still great Lote, please don't go back to league.'

[Jehna]

Surely given that, it is stupid to name two VCs. What happens if Smith goes off? Do Lote and Sharpie have it out on the field as to who becomes captain? I mean I'm assuming it'll be Sharpie, similar to when Mortlock went off and Greegs took over despite their being another VC (maybe Rocky? or Smith? i can't remember)

I just don't see the point in naming Tuqiri as a VC. Surely the honour of still being allowed to play (and start) for that matter should be enough to perhaps not inflate his ego, but at least remind him that the union love his arse...or maybe that's just knuckles...and chook

[RuckNMaul]

no wukkas burgs, i feel your frustration but as gustafsl points out VC means SFA in the real world. it is only a name with no real weight carried except when smith is off (if he goes off). all tiqiri bashing aside he is one of the more experianced names in this weekends line up

[Jehna]

all tiqiri bashing aside he is one of the more experianced names in this weekends line up

I was going to point that out...and then realised i could stomach saying that...as far as i can tell he's the only one in the starting line who has had experience as a captain before (aside from george and sharpie who have already been picked). So I guess from that perspective there's not a lot of choice. But i still maintain that you don't need a second VC. Even if Sharpie and Smith are off at the same time, at least Smith will need to be replaced by someone from the bench (Waugh or Rocky) who both can captain and should captain over tuqiri...so why can't we name a bench player as a VC?

[KenyaQuin]

Jehna, just a quick one, a starting VC is probably best to take over captaincy in the event that an injury occurs to the captain on the field. You can have a VC on the bench, however, it may not be ideal to have Phil Waugh, for example, running on to the field 30 minutes into the game and immediately taking over captaincy duties.

Second, naming of VCs simply establishes a continuation of authority, so to speak. Again, in the event of an injury occuring to the captain the team knows who to turn to next to make the necessary judgement calls..example, captain injured in high tackle resulting in penalty, players/ref have a next-in-line to make the decision on what to do with the penalty.

Ultimately, the vice captaincy is a "pseudo-title" used to recognise seniority and that coaches can use as a tool to motivate and encourage.

[gustafsl]

If Smith and Sharpie both go off I just hope General Lote doesn't hurt any of our Force boys for taking a quick tap and go.

[Burgs]

A traditional take on the Captaincy/Vice Captaincy format is to have your best leader and communicator as the Captain to liaise between Officials and the players. That player would also normally lead the section of the team he plays in, ie if he is an Outside Centre he generally also leads the Backs.
In that instance the Vice Captain would generally be the leader of the Forwards, especially at lineouts and scrums. And vice versa...
An exception to that is if the Captain is Scrumhalf he is generally too busy flapping his gums and arms and the Flyhalf then normally runs the Backs.
I realise there are many variations on that theme however that has been the genesis of the titles/roles.

[jono]

i dont see why connolly thinks its nessesary to rotate the captaincy.
if he feels it is. he should stick to one captain and ONE vice captain.
being el capitano or VC or an international side should NOT be used as a training method.
its an honour that many young people aspire to. having it passed around to players that are underperforming is a joke. the captaincy is a respected posistion. giving it to players who are on their last chance is not a way to maintain that respect. it undercuts everything that captaining one's country is about.

sharpie is more than capable as a captain or a vice captain. he doesnt need someone else there helping/hindering him.

[jazza93]

i think this is a reward for smith and lote and they deserve it. they have both been playing well and they have been working hard.

lote hasnt done anything stupid on the tour and he has pulled his head in. he has set up heaps of trys and if he is at 13 he will set up more trys.


The vice captin doesnt do anything anyway and its against canada who cares. people arnt going to look back and see him as a legend because he was a VC.

[KenyaQuin]

A traditional take on the Captaincy/Vice Captaincy format is to have your best leader and communicator as the Captain to liaise between Officials and the players. That player would also normally lead the section of the team he plays in, ie if he is an Outside Centre he generally also leads the Backs.
In that instance the Vice Captain would generally be the leader of the Forwards, especially at lineouts and scrums. And vice versa...
An exception to that is if the Captain is Scrumhalf he is generally too busy flapping his gums and arms and the Flyhalf then normally runs the Backs.
I realise there are many variations on that theme however that has been the genesis of the titles/roles.

On the money.

[Flamethrower]

What a load of crap. People can try to justify why Lote might have been given the V.C. however it would have to be one of the most stupid ideas I've heard.

[The Lone Hydrangea]

Good point FT, a real bad selection of Lote. Whats the press saying over in Pieland? VC is worth jack shit. Suss out Sharpie in breaks of play for the Wallabies and the Force, he is going hammer and tongs and laying down the law to rest of them.Lote will sit back and let Sharpie handle it. He has interpersonal skills and Lote,,,,well he scores tries?

[Flamethrower]

He use to score tries.

[tragic]

I agree with Burgs' initial post.

W.T.F. srsly.