THE ARC COMPETITION IS FINISHED

[James]

It wouldn't suprise me if Mitch made another push to get a few young players playing in the ANZC. It also wouldn't be suprising if he copped a lot of negative publicity about it in the East which is entirely hypocritical since its got nothing to do with them and they didn't even really try with the ARC. It annoyed the hell out of me when Matt Carroll (who seems to be as big a knobhead as Growden) said that we needed 'Strong Leadership' in hard times. When are we going to get this strong leadership? It doesn't show when they chicken out of taking a chance and whats the bet with all their strong leadership they won't have another new competition up before the next World Cup.

[GIGS20]

I wonder how much 'strong leadership' Robbie Deans will be able to bring to bear. The board have effectively hamstrung him in his job as elite coach of Australian rugby.

[Thequeerone]

1:Think NSW and QLD hold the balance of power on the ARU board
2:The ARC exposed a lot of new players to professional coaching techniques - appreciate fully what club coaches do - but lets face it guys with regular jobs can't get the lads to the same level as Mulvihill, Laurie Fisher and the other people who weren't really involved like our own Mitch.

AUS NEEDS AN ARC how else are we to develop new talent

besides which it was FUN going to ME and listening to the lads cajoling each other in that gentle polite manner that they do! even in the rain.

[KenyaQuin]

They don't even have the guts to put out the statement on the official ARU website. So much for the empty rhetoric on building the game, community support nationwide and "strong leadership".

[Darren]

What's gonna happen to Amanda Shalala?

[tragic]

COWARDS!!! *shakes fist*
Come back and fight us like the men you can be, not like the purse-carrying nancy-boys you've been cossetted into thinking you are!!!

poop.

[frontrow]

It is a shame it is over, absolutely piss poor form from the ARU, but to be expected really with the calibre of a snake like Carroll in their ranks...
I know Fulvio is glad to see the back of it as it detracts from club rugby, and in some respects i agree with him, but this is a tournament which has clashed with a world cup and also club finals both here and over east, causing enourmous angst within the club scene, and poor turn-out and advertising due to RWC...
A review of this could have analysed this and rectified the situation (in the new year) so that the comp ran after the season ended for club rugby, thereby not clashing with the finals and poaching the talent from the club scene...There also lies another solution, in that the supporters of club rugby are not forced to choose a new team over their local team, or a RWC...
I believe one more year would have made sense...

[Bunji]

Bit of a shame but they knew they were pushing s--t up hills when it began

[Badger]

Primary Objectives of ARC
The primary objectives of the Mazda Australian Rugby Championship are:

• Bridge the widening gap between Club Rugby and Super 14
• Give aspiring Club Rugby players who are not in a Super 14 squad a clear pathway to representative selection
• Give Super 14 players who miss out on Wallaby selection the chance to play their way into the Wallaby squad
• Turn over $23.7 Billion Dollars per Season
• Develop a deep pool of experienced, battle-hardened players who are ready to step up to Super 14 and Wallaby level.
• Provide fans with high quality matches, featuring The Best v The Best
• Further expand Rugby in the non-traditional Rugby states and make Rugby a truly national game
• Minimal disruption to the Club Rugby season
• Allow National Competition players to return to Club Rugby the next year, thereby increasing the standard of play in the Club Rugby competition

[chibi]

This was my idea, and I'll stick by it:

S14 Reserves comp?

For me the major problem of the ARC was the artificially created franchises, I always had a problem with those. That, and the fact that the two worst Australian provinces were split into two and three teams; the ACT was represented by an enhanced Vikings club side, rather than a Brumbies "A," all the while a Melbourne side was there, siphoning further talent away from these weakened teams- and to top it all we then basically fielded the Western Force- and we still didn't win it!!! Man that gave me shits!

Not that I have a problem with expanding into Melbourne

[Burgs]

A different approach to looking at it may be that from Wallabies to Super 14 there is a multiplication of four to have a big enough pool of players to get an elite International unit together.
So if the same rule held in "bridging the gap" then the ARU should/could have been gunning for a sixteen team elite Australian Club comp.
This approach would have allowed the traditional power house clubs to step up in the same manner as the VFL became the AFL in Aussie Rules, so the likes of Sydney Uni, Randwick, Easts etc would have been able to keep their structure in place.
This approach would have kept the local scene in the East happy while allowing development in Victoria and WA.

As luck would have it, here is the approximate breakdown of top rep origin Clubs for this years ARC Players.

Sydney Uni NSW 25
Norths NSW 14
Easts NSW 14
Eastwood NSW 13
Randwick NSW 13
Sunnybank QRU 12
Gold Coast Breakers QRU 11
Warringah NSW 11
Manly NSW 10
GPS QRU 9
Brothers QRU 6
Gordon NSW 6
Nedlands WA 6
Vikings ACT 6
Easts QRU 5
Souths QRU 5
University QRU 5
Wests QRU 5

I say approximate for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, it is only the figures from the original ARC Squads, not those who joined in during the season.
Secondly, the Force players (including those in the Rebels) are counted for their WA Clubs, which waters down a couple of the East Coast Club figures, where as the rest of the Rebels players are assigned to their true Club of Origin.

So, to develop some starting point of debate, I would propose a structure of a sixteen team comp like this:

Sydney Uni NSW
Norths NSW
Easts NSW
Eastwood NSW
Randwick NSW
Manly/Warringah NSW
"Greater Western" NSW (ie, the rest of the NSW Clubs based on Wests or Parramatta.)
Sunnybank QRU
Gold Coast Breakers QRU
GPS QRU
Brothers QRU
"Associated Brisbane" (ie, the rest of the Brisbane Clubs)
Canberra Vikings
"Perth Gold" (Northern Zone, Nedlands or Perry Lakes based)
"Perth Black" (Southern Zone, Palmyra or Cockburn based)
Melbourne Rebels

Two Rounds Home & Away, QF, SF & Final.

Let the debates begin!!!

[GIGS20]

Not a bad idea at all Burgs. We need to remember that the ARU will be running cap in hand tho the NSW/QLD clubs with a proposal, so we need to come up with something that gets the Sydney Uni, Randwick, Eastwood etc names out there. As far as WA is concerned anything that is proposed needs at least one team. I wonder if 2 WA teams will stress the resources of RugbyWA, but am in full agreement that we need to broaden the base of players.

A note, if Perth get 2 teams, Canberra should also get 2 teams - possibly a strong link between a Canberra club and the Melbourne team could be fostered, or (God Forbid) reduce the NSW/QLD component by one (Drop Manly/Warringah since George Smith plays for them!)

A system like this would require strict control of inter club transfers, since WA pretty much pillaged the NSW clubs when they were running out of players. Any transfer of a player for this comp, needs to be a long-term transfer in order that it complete it's stated aim of enhancing club rugby. There's no good having a player contracted for a short term with Perth gold, making him unavailable for selection in his ACTUAL club. He would need to have a semi-pro Perth Gold contract, and be drafted into a WA club team for [say] the following season.

But it's a bloody good compromise Burgs!

[Burgs]

Manly/Warringah would actually be an amalgamated team as they are two separate Clubs still in Union....yah bloody mungo haha
George plays for the Manly half.
I was leaning towards Melbourne being Canberra's "second team", either that or some Southern Districts relationship.
However, under this scenario many of the Brumbies players that played for the Vikings in the ARC would return to their Clubs of Origin so the actual Canberra based pool wouldn't possibly carry two teams and bleed off to Melbourne as well.
We do have to give credit where it is due and seven of sixteen is still probably not truly representative of the player numbers coming out of NSW to the higher levels.
I'm kinda liking the concept the more I think about it and, with the Force Squad split in two, I think WA Rugby would pretty quickly grow to support two separate Squads. There is a pretty strong in-grained parochialism entrenched in longer term WA people North and South of the River which could easily be fostered.

[GIGS20]

I knew about Manly and Warringah being separate mate, but understand why you thought what you did. I would think one of the keystones of such an arrangement would be to get the Brumbies to follow the Force model of aligning S14 players with local clubs. That would have the added incentive of improving the local club scene in Canberra. (I really don't buy the fact that George Smith plays for Manly, when I heard that I was pretty dark really) I'm sure that any suggestion like this would kill the idea where it stands because the NSW clubs would lose all their Brumbies players, but in a perfect world that would be the way to run it!

[Burgs]

I think it would perhaps have to be an evolution type thing where the senior players such as George and Al Campbell would see out their careers with their existing Clubs but bright young stars such as the Faingaa twins (Eastern Suburbs, NSWRU) would be "encouraged" to switch allegiance back to a "home" team.
Over time, with the current trend of scouting new S14 players to franchise Academies, most of the Brumbies players would have a Canberra link.

Here's a breakdown of the current Brumbies list.
Pretty clear how reliant they currently are on Sydney Juniors and Seniors.

Player/Birth/Juniors/Seniors

Adam Ashley-Cooper Sydney, NSW Northern Suburbs, NSW Northern Suburbs, NSW
Peter Betham Wellington, NZ Coogee Wombats (RL), NSW Sydney University, NSW
Alister Campbell Newcastle, NSW Singleton Bulls, NSW Sydney University, NSW
Mitch Chapman Sydney, NSW Beecroft Cheerybrook, NSW University, QLD
Mark Chisholm Gladstone, QLD Nudgee, QLD Tuggeranong, ACT
Huia Edmonds Ashburton, NZ Tuggeranong, ACT prev. Southern Districts
Anthony Faingaa Queanbeyan, NSW Queanbeyan Kangaroos (RL), NSW Eastern Suburbs, NSW
Saia Faingaa Queanbeyan, NSW Queanbeyan Kangaroos (RL), NSW Eastern Suburbs, NSW
Francis Fainifo Auckland, NZ Campbelltown City Kangaroos (RL), NSW Tuggeranong, ACT
Gene Fairbanks Goondiwindi, QLD Goondiwindi Boars (RL), QLD Easts, QLD
Mark Gerrard Sydney, NSW Narrabeen/Manly (RL), NSW Warringah, NSW
Nic Henderson Millmerran, NSW Turvey Park (RL), NSW Southern Districts, NSW
Stephen Hoiles Sydney, NSW Coogee Juniors, NSW Randwick, NSW
Josh Holmes Sydney, NSW Newport Breakers, NSW Eastwood, NSW
Julian Huxley Sydney, NSW Lindfield, NSW Sydney University, NSW
Christian Lealiifano Auckland, NZ Northcote Panthers, VIC Tuggeranong, ACT
Matt Toomua Melbourne, VIC Logan City, QLD ???
Peter Kimlin Canberra, ACT Canberra Grammar School, ACT Western Districts, ACT
Salesi Ma’afu Sydney, NSW West Harbour, NSW Warringah, NSW
Stirling Mortlock Sydney, NSW Lindfield, NSW Gordon, NSW
Patrick Phibbs Sydney, NSW Randwick, NSW Randwick, NSW
Peter Playford Sydney, NSW St Joseph's College, NSW Sydney University, NSW
Clyde Rathbone Durban, SA Warner Beach, South Africa ???
Julian Salvi Canberra, ACT Marist College, ACT Tuggeranong, ACT
Guy Shepherdson Jakarta, Indonesia Easts, ACT Southern Districts, NSW
George Smith Manly, NSW Warringah Roos, NSW Manly, NSW
Tyrone Smith Manly, NSW Warringah Roos, NSW Rugby League
Richard Stanford Dubbo, NSW Wellington Redbacks, NSW Eastern Suburbs, NSW
Jone Tawake Suva, Fiji Kinross Wolaroi, NSW Sydney University, NSW
John Ulugia Auckland, NZ Moorabbin Rams, VIC Tuggeranong, ACT
Adam Wallace-Harrison Perth, WA Associates, WA Eastern Suburbs, NSW