ELVs to be used in WA Community Rugby in 2008

[Ecky]

It's official.

The ELVs, as used in the MARC, will be used in 1st and 2nd Grade in the Perth competition this year. All other grades will play the laws as we all played last year.

These ELVs, of course, are different to those in use for the Super 14 in 2008.

So, picture if you will: "Player A" turns out to play a full game for the 3rds. He plays the game under the "old" laws (ie those under which we all played last year). After that game, being a front rower, he backs up as a reserve for the 2nds and comes on in the second half. He now must play under the new ELVs.

That evening he goes to the game and watches it. He's seen three games of rugby, all playing under different laws.

Still, gotta start somewhere....

I'm looking forward to it though - to see how the local coaches learned from the MARC experience and exploit the new laws. Bring on the season!

[Darren]

What's the difference between the ELV's being used in Super14 and 1st/2nd?

[JediKnight]

Super 14 is playing the limited ELVs (supposedly the good ones & forgetting the ones that didn't quite work out).

Ecky, any idea why they're not playing the same ELVs in Super14 as well as grade rugby? Is this the same situation in NSW & Qld?

[hopep]

I'm with Ecky, I immediately thought of the players shifting grades.
Also, as a coach, what do you teach at training?

That was why using them in S14 or the ARC was good. All teams in the one comp used the same laws - there was consistency.
Now Ecky, what about the refs? How many refs aer going to ref a game under 1 set of laws on Sat morning, then get asked to back up later in the day, or on a sunday and ref under a different set of laws. Sounds like madness to me.

Laws and law changes MUST be consistent throughout any competition. For players, coaches and the refs - not to mention touch judges (who have greater power/responsibility under ELV's).

[Ecky]

All ELVs are to be played in both 1st & 2nd Grade in Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra and Perth.

I believe the ES had them last year as well - at least Brisbane & Sydney did. Not sure about Canberra.

It would seem the "top panel" of refs shall be coccooned by only doing 1st & 2nd Grades. This is interesting as in previous years it was not uncommon to be allocated U/19 (colts) one week and then 2nds the next. Dunno yet but I imagine those in said "top panel" will be encouraged not to ref on Saturday mornings (ie Britannia juniors &/or PSA)

Those refs not in the "top panel" who aspire to get there will probably have a tough time of it this year.

As for the differences between Perth 1st & 2nd and S14 - I might put together some form of summary for youse. I'm on me lunch break at work at the moment, and going to MES tonight, so I may be a few days....

As for the "what do the coaches do?" query, the 1st Grade coaches are being briefed on the by Big Matt at RugbyWA and there is a meeting between coaches and refs in a couple of weeks so we can all discuss what the ramifications of the ELVs are - from both perspectives. I know that the Ref Manager and the Coach Manager (Big Matt) are in virtually constant discussion about "what ifs" in the ELVs.

[brokendown gunfighter]

ELVS should be introduced in all grades & be done with it


also if a ref has a shocker in 2nd grade(I know it would never happen!) does he/she not get dropped to 3rd grade?

[hopep]

Thanks for offering to put a summary together Ecky, that would be great.
I tend to agree with BGF - it seems like an all-or-none approach would be a lot easier.

with touch judges, do all 1st and 2nd grade games have official TJs or 'a bloke from each club' affair like the lower grades? Thats got to make it hard for the ref doesn't it Ecky ?

[Ecky]

Not sure yet but I expect there'll be the usual: clubbies appointed for 2nds and refs (colts & 2nds ref) appointed to TJ 1sts.

I don't think this will be a big issue as the TJ's, while appearing to have more duties/responsibilities, will not be required to do much more than they do now. Backs being back 5m at a scrum - the ref can see that just like the ref sees the 10m from a lineout. Offside at a tackle now being right across the pitch rather than just in the tackle zone - the ref monitors this type of offside at a ruck/maul so that's no biggie.

Let's all wait & see how it looks. Seems we only have two weekends of trial matches before the season starts, so what the games look like in the early rounds will probably not much resemble what they look like late in the season.

AND THERE'S ANOTHER THING: In finals, all matches get refs ranked in the top 18 (9 grades). And in the grand final the top 9 refs are appointed. If these knowledgeable folk have been doing 1sts & 2nds all year they will have to adapt back to the "old" laws for the 3rds on.

But, I believe the ES comps that brought the ELVs in last year ran it for 1sts & 2nds and all others played under the "old" laws. If you saw how big the comp is in Sydney & Brisbane you'd imagine they'd have more issues than we. Gotta start somewhere I suppose.

...and please don't blame me for any of this; I am merely a humble servant who passes on this info when I get it. I cannot change how it will work.

[Ecky]

OK, as promised, this is the list of the basic differences between the SANZAR stuff (i.e S14 and Tri-nations) and Community Rugby (ie 1st & 2nd grade in Perth):

Kick Off/Restarts:
Community Rugby (CU): Free kick to non-offending team. (i.e if the ball doesn’t travel 10m or doesn’t cross the 22 etc)
Super 14 (S14): No change to existing law

Line Out:
CU: No restriction on numbers. For either team. No requirement to match numbers.
S14: No change to existing law

CU: Not straight = Free Kick
S14: No change to existing law

Ruck/Maul:
CU: Players, provided they are on their feet, may use their hands or feet to try to win or keep possession of the ball (ie no “hands in the ruck”)
S14: No change to existing law

CU: Unsuccessful end to ruck or maul results in a free kick to the team not in possession when either the ruck or maul began. So it’s “use it or lose it” for both – nothing about “team going forward” in a ruck. (unless the ref can’t tell who was in possession when the ruck formed – unlikely!)
S14: No change to existing law

Feel free to compare, contrast and discuss.

[antiussentiment]

the laws as used in the ARC certainly made it easier to explain the game to all the mates i dragged allong in an effort to get them interested. most commented that they did not know "how fast rugby was". i take this as a good thing..

i'm with the BDG in respect to using them though.. make it global in out comp and be done with it. though you may have to shorten the halves of lower grade games to make up for all the extra running LOL..

auss.