SANZAR investigate Reds' complaint

[jargan83]

SANZAR investigate Reds' complaint - Rugby - Fox Sports

SANZAR investigate Reds' complaint

By Laine Clark

April 01, 2008 SANZAR will investigate an official Queensland Reds complaint that the Sharks fielded an extra man for more than two minutes in their Super 14 clash in South Africa.

But SANZAR's Peter Rowles does not expect Queensland to receive a bonus point if a teleconference on Wednesday confirms the Sharks used a 16th man.

The Reds claim Sharks replacement Craig Burden was the illegal 16th man.

He came on in the 68th minute of the Sharks' 22-10 win and made two key tackles during his 2 minutes 10 seconds on the field, including a crucial hit on a surging Chris Latham.

The Reds are hopeful they receive a bonus point because backrower Burden's tackle on Latham stopped a potential Reds try which would have at least cut the deficit to under seven points.

Rowles said Reds team manager Brendan Morris had submitted a “fairly comprehensive report”.

But Rowles balked at whether the Reds would receive a bonus point or whether the unbeaten Sharks should be stripped of competition points.

“I won't go that far. That won't be the outcome I don't think,” he said. “It's hard to say what way the tournament director is thinking but I would say it won't be a change in points as a result.”

Queensland Rugby Union chairman Peter Lewis would not say whether there was a fair argument for the Reds to receive a bonus point.

“It is inappropriate for me to buy into that,” Lewis said. “We've put in a submission worthy of consideration. Obviously if there was a positive outcome for it, it would be appreciated.

“It's an issue for SANZAR. For me to be second guessing them wouldn't be appropriate but it's a genuine issue, there's no question about that.

“We would expect they look at it seriously but I am not going to tell them how to do their job.”

Lewis said he was surprised at how long Burden was on the field as a 16th man.

“Absolutely. Somebody cocked up,” he said.

The teleconference will be held Wednesday afternoon after an official Reds complaint was emailed to Bloemfontein-based SANZAR tournament director Johan Botes.

England was fined more than $20,000 for having a 16th man at the 2003 World Cup in a game against Samoa.

Dan Luger was on the field for just six seconds in that match. An English official was also barred from touchline duty for two games over the incident.

[jono]

interesting.
u gotta wonder how that kind of thing can be a mistake though?

[jargan83]

you really do

2 minutes is a long time in Rugby

[zimeric]

inexcusable and although i like the sharks that is as bad as a proffessional foul on the try line. i think the sharks should be docked a point.

[James]

Yeah I think they probably did it on purpose. I say give the Sharks a 2 point penalty but to keep the win.

[no.8]

Strip them of all their points and that way the Force will be 4th!!!

[GIGS20]

Don't panic 8 the will be fourth soon enough!

[jargan83]

Weren't the poms threatened with loss of points from the game against samoa in 2003?

[hopep]

Well, either the Ref had acknowledged they were changing players over or he hadn't. With out the Refs sanction nobody can enter the playing field. In that case - a clear professional foul at club level and - Yes they should lose any points from that game.

I think the tournament director might be wanting a word with the touch judge also, to see if he gave a verbal OK to run on.
But how you could let if go on for 2 minutes is incredible. There are 5 officials supervising each game and they are all wired up to each other. This sort of thing should never happen outside under 11's or maybe local 5th grade.

Mind you I remember a ploy of running a player of on one-side and running his replacement on on the other side in an attempt to confuse the ref in the early 80's ... Naw, he still counted before the next restart.

[jargan83]

Sharks already punished: SA - rugbyheaven.com.au

Sharks already punished: SA

Liam Del Carme, Beeld | April 2, 2008 - 9:16AM

Johannesburg - The Sharks have already been penalised for playing with 16 men for longer than two minutes during their Super 14 rugby match against the Reds last week.

No further punishment is needed, says Johan Botes, the South African Super 14 director.

"A penalty was awarded to the Reds. It says in the International Rugby Board's law book that a penalty should be awarded if a team has more than the permissible number of players on the field," Botes said.

"This is what happened and no more action can be taken against the Sharks."

The Sharks had 16 players on the field for 2 minutes and ten seconds after substitute hooker Craig Burden had been sent on.

Botes says the referee had not spotted, at first, the numerical advantage the Sharks enjoyed.

"One of the match officials on the touchline saw it but he was unable to inform the referee by radio.

"As soon as there was a break in play, he informed the referee and a penalty was awarded to the Reds," Botes explained.

The incident will be discussed during a teleconference among the three tournament directors. "We'll just talk about it because we take note of what happened," he added.

Sapa reported earlier that the controlling body would investigate an official complaint by the Reds.

But Sanzar official Peter Rowles does not expect the Australian side to be awarded a bonus point after the teleconference.

Burden came on in the 68th minute and made two important tackles, including a crucial hit on a Reds danger man Chris Latham.

The Reds thought they should be given a bonus point because Burden's tackle on Latham prevented a try that would have cut the deficit to fewer than seven points.

Rowles said Reds team manager Brendan Morris had submitted a "fairly comprehensive report."

However, he did not believe the Reds would get a bonus point or that the Sharks would be stripped of competition points.

Queensland Rugby Union chairperson Peter Lewis would not say whether there was a fair argument for the Reds to receive a bonus point.

It's an issue for Sanzar. Obviously, if there were a positive outcome it would be appreciated," Lewis said.

"We would expect they look at it seriously but I am not going to tell them how to do their job."

Lewis was surprised at how long Burden was on the field. "Somebody cocked up," he said.

England were fined more than R145 000 for having 16 players on the field during a 2003 World Cup match against Samoa. Dan Luger was on the field for only six seconds.

An England official was also barred from touchline duty for two matches as a result of the incident.

[jargan83]

Reds' extra man ruling Thursday

By Laine Clark April 02, 2008

THE outcome of a SANZAR investigation into Queensland's claim that the Sharks fielded an extra man during their Super 14 clash last Sunday will not be known until Thursday.

SANZAR held a teleconference discussing the Reds' claim that the Sharks had 16 men on the field for more than two minutes in Queensland's 22-10 loss.

But an ARU official said SANZAR were still finalising their report and would reveal the outcome on Thursday.

The Reds claim Sharks replacement Craig Burden was the illegal 16th man.

He came on in the 68th minute of the Sharks' 22-10 win and made two key tackles during his 2min:10sec on the field - including a crucial hit on a surging Chris Latham.

The Reds are hopeful they will receive a bonus point because backrower Burden's tackle on Latham stopped a potential Reds try which would have at least cut the deficit to less than seven points.

An official said SANZAR had received a “fairly comprehensive report” from Reds team manager Brendan Morris.

Meanwhile, the Reds have been buoyed by the return of skipper Sam Cordingley from a calf injury for this Sunday's Super 14 clash against the Cheetahs at Bloemfontein.

“He just trained with us and trained very strongly. He has allayed any concerns about him - he's a definite,” Reds coach Phil Mooney said.

Following the loss to the Sharks last weekend and a draw with the Lions the round before, Queensland are keen to end their three-match South African tour with a victory.

The Cheetahs are 12th on the Super 14 ladder, two places behind the Reds.

“On the surface we were disappointed with the Lions but we played some good footy,” Mooney said.

“Against the Sharks we stepped up our game and made some improvements but the harsh reality is that we didn't get any points out of that.

“If we step up our execution we will go a long way toward getting the points against the Cheetahs.”

[Flamethrower]

It says in the International Rugby Board's law book that a penalty should be awarded if a team has more than the permissible number of players on the field

If that's all you are going to get I wonder if more teams will try to use it

[GIGS20]

And more importantly, it appears that you can only begiven a penalty regardless of the length of time. I wonder how many teams will be considering deliberately complicated patterns of play in order to disguise the extra player they've fielded for as long as possible?

Let's sub him on at about 60 minutes, and see if we can get him to score two tries before he's noticed!

[jargan83]

that would be out an out cheating though in my opinion.................just the tactic the saffers would use

[James]

I figure in the space of a minute Burden is pinged at the tackle and pinged for being on the field in the first place give him a yellow sticker and send Muller off as well. Punishment should be hard and decisive otherwise what stops other teams from playing dirty tricks like if you are on three tries with 5 minutes to go sneak someone on the pitch to get the overlap and get the bonus point.