FRONT ROW FILE

[Bronski Beat]

Lets hear some ideas for fixing the front row/tight five...

Our tight 5 are pretty mobile but like standing off as backs which makes us get owned at the breakdown turning ball over etc.

Do we go for big blokes that do what forwards are supposed to do (smash blokes) or do we persist with having forwards loitering in the back line?

Discuss.

[.X.]

Bron its disappointing that you have to start a great idea for a thread with a bit of niggle. Now you will have 4 people niggle back and your great thread will be lost.



I have always believed that its not the size of the pack its the technique and direction that makes a great pack, a great pack.

I think we have made mistakes over the last couple of years forgetting the basics of hunting as a pack and maintaining a good body height. This steams from the Eddie Jones era of getting our outside backs and our breakaways to beleive that they are all line breakers and individeual try scorers.

We spend to much time running away from our own support and applauding from 10yards back yelling "Go you good thing!"

We should be keeping the ball in close and be in each others pockets. Too often Australian sides whether at the Super or National level are penalised for not releasing the ball. If players ran with support it would never be an issue.

[BLR]

The less forwards in the backs the better, if you want to run it up Sharpie do it from the back of a ruck not the centres!

[Bronski Beat]

Bron its disappointing that you have to start a great idea for a thread with a bit of niggle. Now you will have 4 people niggle back and your great thread will be lost.



I have always believed that its not the size of the pack its the technique and direction that makes a great pack, a great pack.

I think we have made mistakes over the last couple of years forgetting the basics of hunting as a pack and maintaining a good body height. This steams from the Eddie Jones era of getting our outside backs and our breakaways to beleive that they are all line breakers and individeual try scorers.

We spend to much time running away from our own support and applauding from 10yards back yelling "Go you good thing!"

We should be keeping the ball in close and be in each others pockets. Too often Australian sides whether at the Super or National level are penalised for not releasing the ball. If players ran with support it would never be an issue.

We need blokes like McCaw that dont even enter through the gate but somehow get away with it. We needs blokes to CLEAN OUT at the maul.

[Bronski Beat]

The less forwards in the backs the better, if you want to run it up Sharpie do it from the back of a ruck not the centres!

Totally agree!

[Bronski Beat]

We need to cheat huh? Brilliant plan.

McCaw started getting called in the game vs the Chiefs and look what happened

Remember the Crusaders game- Pocock vs McCaw- who won MOM?

If you watch McCaw he doesnt actually cheat at all. He does actually enter through the gate but he does something with his body shape/positioning while ripping the ball that sails very close to the wind. But, he is inside the law. This is why he seldom gets carded.

[BLR]

We need to cheat huh? Brilliant plan.

McCaw started getting called in the game vs the Chiefs and look what happened

Remember the Crusaders game- Pocock vs McCaw- who won MOM?

And who's been the best no 7 for how many years?

The simple fact is we need to drop the good guy act and start playing dirty, I mean, notice in the Reds and Tah game every time we'd get in a try scoring position they'd give up a penalty? Rugby isn't a game for angels and if our forwards turn into mean buggers we'll be an extremely competitive team, the more we bend the rules the more advantage we get, that what makes McCaw so good, he knows the limits he can take it to, and that gives him a huge advantage.

[BaldCunus]

We need blokes like McCaw that dont even enter through the gate but somehow get away with it. We needs blokes to CLEAN OUT at the maul.

So are you wanting opinions on our TIGHT FIVE (as stated in original post) or forward pack as a whole??? Last time I checked McCaw wasnt in the Crusaders Tight Five???

And with blokes like Pocock, Brown, Fava, Hodgson, Horura etc in our squad I think our loosies can hold their own against any opposition and with their collective ages will only get better....

[Bronski Beat]

And who's been the best no 7 for how many years?

The simple fact is we need to drop the good guy act and start playing dirty, I mean, notice in the Reds and Tah game every time we'd get in a try scoring position they'd give up a penalty? Rugby isn't a game for angels and if our forwards turn into mean buggers we'll be an extremely competitive team, the more we bend the rules the more advantage we get, that what makes McCaw so good, he knows the limits he can take it to, and that gives him a huge advantage.

Agreed.

I think we basically need a little more mongrel at the breakdown. I am sure Pocock is trying to emulate McCaw as I'm sure most break aways in world Rugby are, its just that McCaw is a master. I think Pocock has the potential to be better than Richie, but he needs to play with mongrel now.

Just my 2 cents.

[Bronski Beat]

So are you wanting opinions on our TIGHT FIVE (as stated in original post) or forward pack as a whole??? Last time I checked McCaw wasnt in the Crusaders Tight Five???

And with blokes like Pocock, Brown, Fava, Hodgson, Horura etc in our squad I think our loosies can hold their own against any opposition and with their collective ages will only get better....

Oh sorry champ, got a little off topic, meant to start talking about the tight five but got side tracked!

Your opinions on the tight five?

[BLR]

Maybe we can get Owen Finegan to come in and teach the young blokes a thing or two, he was a prime mongrel in his day.

[Bronski Beat]

Maybe we can get Owen Finegan to come in and teach the young blokes a thing or two, he was a prime mongrel in his day.

Yep.

[BaldCunus]

I honestly cant give a reason to why our scrums etc are poor in terms of the Force and Australia wide (being a winger myself all foreign goings on inside a scrum)... From a Force perspective you would think with the players we have that our scrum would be able to hold their own but it just hasnt happened in 3 seasons. OK they are somewhat inexperienced but all have had 3 years in S14 now (bar hockings, Wykes) and I personally havnt seen much improvement come scrum time!!!

I believe it comes down to a coaching/ technique issue were these guys are just not improving at scrum time.... the worst thing that happened to force over the last three years is losing Ben Darwin as forwards coach (I honestly believe we wouldnt be having this conversation if he had spent 3 years shaping our forwards.)

Maybe it is time to recruit a solid experienced scrummager for next season into our front row to show and teach the rest how its done...

[OzFUB]

We need a solid scrum. That is all about stregngth and technique not attitude. Admittedly a bit of aggro can put you off your game but it you don;t have the technique and physique you have no chance.

I think the pack does not bind up tightly enough. The second row should be binding up thightly and helping hodl the front row together. If you look at the best scrums they are a solid mass of muscle - No Gaps

[Bronski Beat]

I honestly cant give a reason to why our scrums etc are poor in terms of the Force and Australia wide (being a winger myself all foreign goings on inside a scrum)... From a Force perspective you would think with the players we have that our scrum would be able to hold their own but it just hasnt happened in 3 seasons. OK they are somewhat inexperienced but all have had 3 years in S14 now (bar hockings, Wykes) and I personally havnt seen much improvement come scrum time!!!

I believe it comes down to a coaching/ technique issue were these guys are just not improving at scrum time.... the worst thing that happened to force over the last three years is losing Ben Darwin as forwards coach (I honestly believe we wouldnt be having this conversation if he had spent 3 years shaping our forwards.)

Maybe it is time to recruit a solid experienced scrummager for next season into our front row to show and teach the rest how its done...

The problem is in the front row. They have all the tools, but maybe not good enough technique/mongrel?