Referees - Match Adjudicators, or Match "Managers"?

[Darren]

but will need to see the TV stuff to comment.

Right here: Relive the moment..video highlight of Saturday's last minute. - Western Force Rugby Supporters Site

[Ecky]

hmmm

Can't open Youtube at work...........

Stand by - I'll be home in several hours

[blueandblack]

....

Right - any questions?

In the case of the Force v Chiefs game, when asked the question by Jonker about the knock-on, if it is inappropriate for that question or that part of the question to be asked, could the TMO have said to Jonker something to the effect of "I'm sorry. I'm not allowed to rule on that part" (but answered anything he is entitled to answer on)?

[travelling_gerry]

A bit more homework for you Ecky.

The position of the penalty at the end. From looking at the replays the original infringement took place over the top of the "investec" sign on the ground, yet the kick was given over closer to the sideline??

[Flamethrower]

It looks to me that Jonker went back to where he was standing when he called the penalty, not where the offense took place.

Good job he did though. The kick may not have come back in time if it was further in

[GIGS20]

The Brumbies player pushed the Stormers player in the game....I don't see the big problem with the penalty try...don't push the opposing player when he has a potential scoring opportunity...it looks kinda soft but it doesn't change the fact that he pushed the Stormers player out of the way...

Sorry, my understanding of the game is different, jostling in the run to the ball is ok, pulling a player back or deliberately pushing him out of the way is illegal, but bumping into him (which is what it looked like to me) is OK....surely in a situation where we're arguing a judgement call like that, a penalty try is eccessive.....for my money, it should have been a lineout, or play on, but even if it was a penalty, there is a significant chance that he would have been tackled before the line, therefore no penalty try.....and yellow card...please! he only gave the yellow card because to NOT give the yellow card after awarding a penalty try would have made him look like a right goose!

[GIGS20]

Right - any questions?

I distinctly remember Marius (I think in the first half) Calling Cam Shepherd offside when he jumped early off the tryline even though Shep had noticed his error and retreated to the line before the ball emerged from the ruck. Play didn't even start between his offence and his recantation. when the ball did emerge, it went the other way, with advantage being played. When the Chiefs went nowhere they got a penalty for the offside.

How does this fit with the decision to continue play when an offside runner can pull out and not be penalised?

[BLR]

Sorry, my understanding of the game is different, jostling in the run to the ball is ok, pulling a player back or deliberately pushing him out of the way is illegal, but bumping into him (which is what it looked like to me) is OK

YouTube - Stormers penalty try vs Brumbies

Look at his arm, a clear push, the Stormers player hammed it up a little bit but a push none-the-less...

[jazza93]

Foul play: Is any action by a player that is contrary to the law and the spirit of the game and includes obstuction, unfair play, dangerous play, unsporting behaivior and repeated infrindgements.

Foul play offences result in a penalty kick and can also result in a caution, temorary suspention or send off, and a penalty try if appropriate.

thats one reason probably to give the try, he was grabbed and if he is going to break the rules he is going to pay, a smart player would have waited and gone for the tackle.

[GIGS20]

YouTube - Stormers penalty try vs Brumbies

Look at his arm, a clear push, the Stormers player hammed it up a little bit but a push none-the-less...

Sorry...don't see it mate, he's got his hand on him, but I can't see the opposition player react until after the ball is forward passed infield of him. even then the movement doesn't look like the momentum comes from the Brumbies player pushing him, more like a dive to me.

I think the telling angle is the one from in front.

[Ecky]

In the case of the Force v Chiefs game, when asked the question by Jonker about the knock-on, if it is inappropriate for that question or that part of the question to be asked, could the TMO have said to Jonker something to the effect of "I'm sorry. I'm not allowed to rule on that part" (but answered anything he is entitled to answer on)?

The ref can ask for a ruling on the player in the process of scoring. It is my opinion that he was not entitled to ask for what he asked of George Ayoub (the TMO). Not sure of the replying protocol, sorry.

A bit more homework for you Ecky.

The position of the penalty at the end. From looking at the replays the original infringement took place over the top of the "investec" sign on the ground, yet the kick was given over closer to the sideline??

Easy one TG:
He's called "advantage, offside - the whole back line". Then, in the time off period he mentions "lazy runners". The most immediate impact to the playing of the ball was those offside players nearest to it. The place he awarded it was perfectly fine as he said the whole lot of them were offside. The ones on/near the "investec" sign were, um, more offside than the inside runners.

[Ecky]

I distinctly remember Marius (I think in the first half) Calling Cam Shepherd offside when he jumped early off the tryline even though Shep had noticed his error and retreated to the line before the ball emerged from the ruck. Play didn't even start between his offence and his recantation. when the ball did emerge, it went the other way, with advantage being played. When the Chiefs went nowhere they got a penalty for the offside.

How does this fit with the decision to continue play when an offside runner can pull out and not be penalised?

A general observation as I haven't seen the whole game on TV yet:

An offside player is liable to penalty if he interferes with/affects play. Even if the ball ultimately gets sent the other way, it may be that the offside player cut down the options of the scrum half. If you watch the replay you might see the Chiefs' half look over to where Shep was, and maybe even start to go that way, but having to switch play because of his presence. Happens quite frequently, especially in "the red zone" (inside the 22, near the goal line).

If, at some stage, I get to see this game on replay, I'll look for this bit and report further.