thought you would like it!
Did you check it twice?
nah, me and santa just share a birthday we dont hang out or anything!
Originally Posted by waratahjesus
that was yesterday laura! dont bring it up now, were past that! why do you think the ARC was canned Laura?
ah yes it was yesterday but you used it to stop the arguing then and now I'm using it to stop your arguing
I didn't watch ARC and dont feel that I know enough about its success, or lack there of, to comment on the reasons why it was canned.
Oh and before you say "then why did you comment on the money allocations", I commented on the financial side of it because I have read about that and the issue rises not only in the case of the ARC but all sporting/general events that WA are involved in, more money is allocated to our teams because the travel expenses are insanely high compared to interstate travel between the eastern states based clubs.
I have my own ideas as to why I think it should have been continued and that had it continued, it would have proved a huge success. Like anything it takes time and I dont thnk that giving it 1 year was long enough to judge its potential success/failure. There are set up costs that are one-off expenses and I think if the ARU gave it time to prove itself and the success that it could have been, they would have realised that the initial loss was worth the long term gain not only financially, but also for the development of rugby in Australia.
totally agree with you,
i think the main reason it failed, as moses pointed out earlier was that Flowers raced the design and structure of the competition through before O'neil came back, i think if O'neil had been the one with his name to it, he would have been far more inclined to help make it succeed!
also i think it was hastily put together, the nsw club situation doesnt lend itself to teams merging to create new entities, its very tribal and has years of competing for players and money to get over before it could work together!
i think the A-league is a far better model, in that the teams were created without affiliation to any existing clubs or groups, it was always going to be a hard sell in nsw and qld!
Agreed - however we must give credit where credit is due - O'Neil rarely misses a trick to make money and is not nearly as accommodating to different "factions"
I miss the ARC - everyone is saying watch this space but still after 1 year nothing and no rumours either - in the meantime our lads and the Reds are doing their development overseas - which is a shame cause we are all missing out - if Spanners and Wykes go home do they fly out replacements - Jeez must be easier to manage in Aus.
Only thing I would say about the next incarnation of the ARC is don't play the games in July/August - it's to wet and puts the punter off.
61 years between Grand SlamsWas the wait worth it - Ya betta baby
the strength in linking to local clubs is that you're immediately tapping into a local, established fan-base/market, for example: a fan who supports eastwood would automatically support the Rams because eastwood is a feeder club for them (or whatever).
But I think the ARC put too many teams in Sydney. I remember the weeks leading up to the start of the ARC, I still wasn't sure who I was going to support. Two of my local teams had names with homosexual connotations (Fleet, Rams) and the other team sounded like a bunch of old blokes (the Rays).
All financial issues aside (I've never really cared about money anyway) ... here's why I agreed with canning it, or at least post-poning it for a few years to better organise it:
Before the competition started, I sent an email to Tah Talk - the tah's weekly podcast, basically expressing my concern about the lack of marketing in the lead up to the ARC. It got read out, so I was pretty pleased with myself. I think it was about a month out and team names still hadn't been made public, jersey's/team colours hadn't been revealed. There was no advertising (until the 'you don't know me ... yet' ad came out about two weeks before kickoff) leading up to it. It wasn't until about half way through the comp that billboards started appearing on major roadways and stuff. You had to find Canterbury stores to buy jerseys, whereas in Sydney, you walk into any Rebel store and the A League, NRL and AFL stuff smacks you in the face as you walk in.
My main theory as to why it failed - and I believe it was a failure - is that people simply didn't know about it, unless you were a die-hard rugby fan who spends their spare time browsing rugby forums. Advertising was abysmal. And because of this, the crowd attendances were mis-matched to the venues, so the crowd always looked tiny on TV.
Adding to this, when the games were televised (which you needed a set-top box or access to ABC2 to see), they had the crowd sitting in the same side of the stadium as the cameras, and the other sides of the stadium empty, so that it looked like no one was there. When I saw that on TV, it diffused any desires to go and attend a game (partly because I was still figuring out which team I was going to support), whereas if you ever see or attend a Tigers game at Leichardt oval (I'm not a tigers fan, and I know most union fans hate NRL ... just get over it for a second), they have packed out crowds in a tiny stadium. They're the loudest fans around, so when you're there, the atmosphere is AWESOME, and on TV, it looks amazing.
Even more than that, it was badly timed - in Sydney at least, people were turning away from Rugby. Poor wallaby performances, poor S14 performances from all Australian provinces meant that the rugby watching public weren't happy with the game. Add to that the RWC at the same time, finals time for the NRL and AFL ... That's the worst time to start a new comp, I think. If the comp were to start the week after our bledisloe win against NZ a couple of weeks ago, the rugby watching people are on a high, interested in the game, talking up the game, and I think ready to watch a few more games: perfect atmosphere to give them something new.
Basically, I think it was incredibly badly organised, badly researched and badly implemented, from a spectators point of view. While it may have been the step between club rugby and S14 that Australia needs, it wasn't thought through from the entertainment point of view. And basically, once a sport turns professional, it's more than just a sport, it's a form of entertainment. If you're not entertaining the masses, you're losing.
That said, I loved the games I did watch, even though I was never really sure of who to go for, and I kind of wish that there was some sort of comp still running. Maybe the situation was different in Perth because you had one team to choose from, so there's more tribalism. But it wasn't the case (in my experience) in sydney.
umm ... sorry for the essay. If you can't be bothered reading all that, I'm just suggesting that it was more ARU ineptitude (I used a big word! I feel like a 49 year old!) than anything else.
[QUOTE=waratahjesus;157689]
NSWRU is not to blame for the downfall of the ARC because it was set up, both financially and in structure by the ARU which is the national body for those playing along at home, they are the ones that allocated the funding, grants etc and they are also the ones that decided to end the competition.
to complain how NSWRU spent the money they were allocated by the ARU as a reason for the downfall of a competition is not even an argument, no NSW team went bankrupt or asked for more money!
then to say that the Spirit somehow made money when you have stated by your own admission that rugbyWA put in 2 million of there own money plus got 5 million from the ARU for a grand total of 7 million! congrats on recruiting some NSWRU accountants! for the spirit to make a profit that would mean they turned over more than 7 million dollars, how many people turned up to watch them, cos thats a hell of alot of revenue! every team lost money, as the ARU stated it was an unacceptable financial risk to continue to go forward![QUOTE]
your clutching at straws again mate. its fact that the nswru receives the biggest allocation of money from the aru. the simple fact that the nswru seems to be an annual loss making machine tends to suggest that the nswru board is as inept with money as firepower. to receive grants and loans at will (no thanks to the 4 current aru board members) to bail nswru out year in, year out (when was the last time nswru made a profit?) tells me that the financial drain this has on the aru restricts the aru's ability to run competitions such as the ARC. couple this with the fact individual clubs requested compensation money from the aru for losing players to representitive duties and its clearer that the nswru and its affiliated clubs seem to have more power than is healthy for a national sporting body such as the aru. yes, you have the strongest club comp of all the states. yes, you have the biggest talent pool of all the states. yes, you contribute more revenue than any other state. but is this any reason to hold rugby in australia back from reaching its potential through competitions such as the ARC? how many years was states such as wa, vic and sa trying to become involved in any kind of national competition to grow rugby in australia beyond the nsw border only to be rebuffed repeatedly and eventually settling for the secondary provincial shield comp?
nswru has always held themselves in the esteemed regard as 'the keepers of the game'. this has meant that their singular focus has been to preserve this self appointed status. without this self appointed status, nswru would lose its stronghold on the aru's bailout monies. whats the best way to keep this status? easy, eliminate other unions abilities to overtake them through shrewd manipulation of aru resources and aru national development policies. self preservation at all costs.
a competition like the ARC was never going to be perfect in its inaugral year. heck, if some nsw clubs had their way, it would have been finished before it started. but it was in my opinion worth persevering with. players like ben alexander, ryan cross, cam shepherd and peter hynes (even player of tournament klingon beale) would have missed out on the higher level of rugby needed to develop into wallabies. it also gave players like tom hockings, sam wykes, kieran longbottom and rob horne the opportunity to show they were capable of stepping up to super 14 rugby. what the ARC needed was a restructure and a rethink not the constant bickering that was eminating out of nsw club rugby. if the nswru board was on its game then they might have pulled the rogue clubs back into line and accepted the fact australian rugby needs to grow in national strength to avoid falling further behind other football codes in terms of participation and sponsorship.
your half witted assumption that a $5mill grant for super 14 and arc player payments together with $2mill of rugbywa monies for competition development is astonishing. TOCC posted that rugbywa received a $5mil aru grant for player payments and the costs of running the arc. i stated that this meant rugbywa received no aru grant for club rugby development yet used $2mil of its own revenue to keep rugby in wa growing. to then assume this meant that the perth spirit operated a turnover of $7mil is ludicrous at best. for the perth spirit rugbywa received the standard $1.5mil aru grant for operational costs. together with strong sponsorship from et mining and hire rugby wa was able to turn a profit of about $180 000. so from turnover of aqpproximately $3mil we made $180 000. not much really but something nswru would have been proud of too. the real benefit to rugby wa was a pathway for identifying talent from the wa club rugby system. players like longbottom and james stannard would still be hacking around in 1st grade instead of earning professional contracts. this is why the canning of the arc and a national comp idea altogether at the persistence of a few overly powerful nsw clubs is a source of frustration for us force diehards. if the nswru board was competent enough to recognise the need to expand rugbys revenue bases outside of nsw, qld and the act to keep rugby growing through comps like the arc we wouldnt be accusing them of being inept.
the way you nsw boys were baiting us about the firepower issues struck a nerve with me. even though the western force havent folded and moved to melbourne, lost its higher profile players and taken responsibility for firepoer collapsing as you gleefully suggested, the gibes havent been forgotten around twf. if we stumble upon some reports by your very own sydney morning herald stating rumours of racism and imcompetent administrators, can you blame us for baiting you back? whats the sayings, 'all rumours start from truths',. what goes around comes around?
ive also noticed you've resorted to your tired old line of the western force wouldnt exist without the aru grants received to start the professional franchise. BULLSHIT!! the money generated from sponsorships and corporate packages sold when the people power of this state earnt us the franchise ahead of the nswru's choice of melbourne, exceeded the $5mil provided from the aru for player payments. thats right player payments, nothing from the aru to set the franchise up. the whole bid process was rugby wa's chance to demonstrate that the capital to expand to a professional franchise level could be generated by rugby wa. its called self sufficiency, what any business needs to survive. rugby wa doesnt have any new facilities resulting from these mythical startup grants you try to tell me, just the same old offices in perry lakes theyve had for decades.
sorry its so long winded ..... TAHS suck!!!!
Racism in NSW rugby?
Disgraceful.
It would never happen here.
Not at all. It is the perfect analogy.
NSWRU does nothing and blames everyone else for their problems.
Sheeesh. No wonder you can't get through to anyone, you don't even understand what you are trying to say.
Posted via space
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
the main problem is that perth has an inflated ego cos they found stuff in the ground, im sure the mining boom will never end though and that your government is being responsable in stockpiling money and mining sites for the future and not just raping your entire state for a quick buck!
the ARC would never have gotten off the ground without NSWRU, as stated a few posts earlier most of the spirit players came from interstate, perth doesnt have the development to field a side of there own, so before you adhere to blaming nsw for its downfal how about creating a thread thankyou nsw for creating the opportunity for perth to have a team in the first place!
dude if you want to play with the older kids, youre going to have to stop discrediting your arguments with these sort of obvious baiting attempts.
the lack of aru development funding and the lack of any meaningful national development strategy and competition is why wa rugby cannot provide more than a handful of super 14 level players. i mean why would nswru want to help other unions develop their talent pools if it threatens nswru's grip on the aru purse strings?
your right with the statement 'the ARC would never have gotten off the ground without NSWRU', the ARC also bit the dust because of the NSWRU. by stating that NSWRU was so central in starting up the comp, they would have also been central in scrapping the comp, you have confirmed our argument.
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