Why was the ARC canned?

[NTT]

ps ... TAHS suck

[Thequeerone]

Enough already - we shall all Don powder blue and fall down and worship the annointed turf all Tahs walk upon.

This is a discussion forum - people are entitled to an opinion It is not a way of slagging people off. A lot of people are concerned about the amount of grants that NSW gets when compared to other states - it doesn't appear sustainable or healthy for NSW or rugby in Oz.

Not all ARC players came from NSW. RugbyWa has done a reasonable job of developing new talent and as you hang around here you will see people really pleased to see local guys coming through. We the where never going to get an all local team overnight if ever.

The problems with the ARC model are deeper than the factions governing NSW or any other state - the ARU triped itself up with that model - hopefully leasons have been learnt and we can move forward. We all see a need for something above Club rugby and below S14 - it is not useful to assume that NSW can bear the burden of identifying and nuturing all potential talent - ALONE or is that what you wish

[NTT]

They made $7m selling Jersey's to Westralians with Bumblebee fetishes.

this is what happens when people believe the non sensical ramblings of waratahjesus. the spirit didnt have a $7mil operating turnover. thats just a figure waratahjesus assumed after misreading my post. the operating budget was between $2-3mil after sponsorships.

[RuckNMaul]

the main problem is that perth has an inflated ego cos they found stuff in the ground, im sure the mining boom will never end though and that your government is being responsable in stockpiling money and mining sites for the future and not just raping your entire state for a quick buck!

I think you will find WA has un-surveyed areas of land that are bigger than NSW alltogether!

thanks for the vote of confidence hydrangea, its nice to know that since you cant contribute you need to resort to personal insults! i will put you on the list with gerry!

im guessing TLH was out doing some backbreaking work witch dosnt allow him to post/ contribute all day like other public servents or workers with Net access

i like it here, i think i might stay for ever!

we like it here too, but the fishing laws are set to change in WA so you and your lot may find little to do around these parts

there is a real need for the ARU to take charge in this area and get a domestic provinicial comp up and going ASAP, anyway we look at it the ARC is gone and no amount of fingerpointing will change that!

[waratahjesus]

stated by western force fans in this thread is that the spirit got a 5 million dollar grant from the ARU and that rugbyWA put in 2 million of there own money, thats seven million utlayed for the running of the Perth Spirit in the ARC, i got those figures from this thread as posted by members of TWF, the same members that attacked the NSWRU getting a grant!

my argument was when someone stated that the spirit made rugbyWA a profit, its complete bullcrap! for the spirit to be financial viable then they would have had to turned over more than 2 million for rugbyWA to make a profit (and please post figures if rugbyWA made more than they outlayed!), then you still have the fact that it has cost the ARU five million! so therefore for the spirit and to be a viable team in the ARC, they would have needed to turn over 7 million dollars to make them brake even!

NTT - 5 million grant, plus 2 million of rugbyWA money = 7 million operating budget!

7 million is alot of money to waste on a team of misplaced nsw & queensland players, they should have just let them play at tweed heads and saved on travel!

[waratahjesus]

Enough already - we shall all Don powder blue and fall down and worship the annointed turf all Tahs walk upon.

This is a discussion forum - people are entitled to an opinion It is not a way of slagging people off. A lot of people are concerned about the amount of grants that NSW gets when compared to other states - it doesn't appear sustainable or healthy for NSW or rugby in Oz.

Not all ARC players came from NSW. RugbyWa has done a reasonable job of developing new talent and as you hang around here you will see people really pleased to see local guys coming through. We the where never going to get an all local team overnight if ever.

The problems with the ARC model are deeper than the factions governing NSW or any other state - the ARU triped itself up with that model - hopefully leasons have been learnt and we can move forward. We all see a need for something above Club rugby and below S14 - it is not useful to assume that NSW can bear the burden of identifying and nuturing all potential talent - ALONE or is that what you wish

i agree with you totally up until the last line of corse!
the cost of players being displaced from nsw to other unions around the country, as attributed to the Force coming into the competition, (not a crack but a truth that you need to recruit players short term until you develop more of your own)

NSWRU provide the majority of brumbies and waratahs players as well as providing discards to perth and queensland, (discards isnt the right word but im being pro tahs so sue me!) to say that nsw recieve all the money is just crap, we compete tooth and nail with rugby league (that has tried and failed in perth already) for talent as well as a large push by afl in recent years which is set to increase, we do hold ourselves as keepers of the game cos we do hold the game at the moment! the talent comes from the eastern seaboard, funding to perth will be increased as the years go on (in relation to revenues) but to cut funding or hold it steady in NSW (& QLD) would be an absolute disaster of epic proportions in the battle to keep talent.

those unruly clubs you so easily slag off or say need to be brought into line actually do a crapload of development work seperate to any ARU funding! they recruit players from the Islands and country areas, keep people away from league and develop unsigned players into super rugby players & future internationals (see luke burgess). when they rely on revenue from winning competitions and community support (some have club houses with poker machines, some run on volunteers) its hard to argue against them wanting compensation or some sort of reassurance of support! if there was a another level of competition between international and super rugby, would the force not want some sort of payoff for letting gits and cross go for half the season?

we do need the comp and i wish it had worked, but as i have already mentioned the politics were between Flowers and O'neil, the comp was rushed and incredible flawed from the beginning, i loved it and went to a few games and had a great time, i spent money on merchandise and followed my team through the season, for a comp to work more people need to do that, not just bitch about it on an internet forum a year or so later!

[Moses]

your clutching at straws again mate. its fact that the nswru receives the biggest allocation of money from the aru.

NSW also generates the biggest amount of money for the ARU. The ARU get their money from TV rights and the Wallabies then distribute it to member unions. NSW need money to operate, after all 60% of Australia’s professional players hail from NSW (source). The analogy of Federal and State governments is fairly apt, we generate the money for the ARU and calling it a grant does not make it a handout.

the simple fact that the nswru seems to be an annual loss making machine tends to suggest that the nswru board is as inept with money as firepower. to receive grants and loans at will (no thanks to the 4 current aru board members) to bail nswru out year in, year out (when was the last time nswru made a profit?) tells me that the financial drain this has on the aru restricts the aru's ability to run competitions such as the ARC.

You try and run a state union without money from TV rights and see how many magic fuel pills you need to sell to turn a profit.
What you call a grant I'd call an operating expense. True they were bailed out in 2000, I'm sure you'd be aware that they repaid the $4.5m in 2003 at which time NSWRU regained control of it's operations from the ARU (Source)

couple this with the fact individual clubs requested compensation money from the aru for losing players to representitive duties and its clearer that the nswru and its affiliated clubs seem to have more power than is healthy for a national sporting body such as the aru.

so you'd argue that compensation was unfair? The ARC was pushed through at the last minute, Shute Shield was already running and clubs were facing real losses that they could not have planned for.

yes, you have the strongest club comp of all the states. yes, you have the biggest talent pool of all the states. yes, you contribute more revenue than any other state.

that's why they call us the heartland

but is this any reason to hold rugby in australia back from reaching its potential through competitions such as the ARC? how many years was states such as wa, vic and sa trying to become involved in any kind of national competition to grow rugby in australia beyond the nsw border only to be rebuffed repeatedly and eventually settling for the secondary provincial shield comp?

I honestly don't know, feel free to enlighten me here.

nswru has always held themselves in the esteemed regard as 'the keepers of the game'. this has meant that their singular focus has been to preserve this self appointed status. without this self appointed status, nswru would lose its stronghold on the aru's bailout monies. whats the best way to keep this status? easy, eliminate other unions abilities to overtake them through shrewd manipulation of aru resources and aru national development policies. self preservation at all costs.

of course self preservation plays a big part, however I think the ARC was ultimately in the interests of NSW Rugby. My team did win the comp after all.

a competition like the ARC was never going to be perfect in its inaugral year. heck, if some nsw clubs had their way, it would have been finished before it started.

There were rumours of one kicking and screaming but the vast majority came on boarrd before the comp kicked off.

but it was in my opinion worth persevering with.

mine too

players like ben alexander, ryan cross, cam shepherd and peter hynes (even player of tournament klingon beale) would have missed out on the higher level of rugby needed to develop into wallabies. it also gave players like tom hockings, sam wykes, kieran longbottom and rob horne the opportunity to show they were capable of stepping up to super 14 rugby.

to an extent, I'm sure that Horne would have shone in the Shute Shield and moved up through the traditional channells had the ARC not been there. I don't know so much abo the others.

what the ARC needed was a restructure and a rethink

100%

not the constant bickering that was eminating out of nsw club rugby. if the nswru board was on its game then they might have pulled the rogue clubs back into line and accepted the fact australian rugby needs to grow in national strength to avoid falling further behind other football codes in terms of participation and sponsorship.

I'm just not seeing any evidence to plant the blame solely on NSW. Sure it's the cool thing to do on a western force site, but in my opinion we were on board with the comp.

[BLR]

This is boring.

[Flamethrower]

Actually it's funny just to see waratahjesus and Moses praise each other.

[Moses]

Actually it's funny just to see waratahjesus and Moses praise each other.

takes me back to the good old days on Mount Sinai.

To be honest I'll cheers any post that I agree with or is funny/witty..

[Vacuous Fangirl]

were u 2 like lovers there or sumthing...coz thats hot!
maybe thats what the local comp needs, some bonding time on mount sinai

[Mtbeaver]

teh

[RuckNMaul]

how about we discuss/suggest the things that we would like to se in a national comp?

like competition format, pathways to development for local provincial sides

i suggest this because as BLR stated, "this is boring" and hes right.
anyone can fingerpoint and place blame but how about some positive feedback on the defunct comp and lets discuss how to build a national comp that NSWRU cant fuck up (hehehe) anyway you know what i mean.

[waratahjesus]

the setup of rugby doesnt actually lend itself to a national comp, the distance of sides apart and cost involve are stupid.

we would be much better investing in the club scene in melbourne and perth and then making a club style champions league carnival hosted over a few weeks at the end of the season!

[Flamethrower]

I think the club comps are still not able to be rated as a third tier as they are too large to have enough quality players.
The club comp needs to feed a level below Super 14 to condense the talent and raise the players skills closer to Super 14 level.