Where to for Rugby Union in USA

[welshrugbyfan]

I dont think we will see the end of the 120kg prop with ELV's, there will continue to be a strong focus on scrums and it will continue to be used as a attacking weapon, meaning sides wont be able to neglect the front row.

You wont see fat wrecks running around in the future under ELV's, props will be forced to come more conditioned, but really its just the ever evolving of rugby under professionalism, all players are having to have a higher level of fitness and conditioning.



QLD did want to resign him, the ARU werent offering the contract top-up, which meant he was a bargain for any NH side.

Should have set the bar at 130+ keg props. There were some big roosters running on in that superbowl today. After watching the whole game I have a new respect for the physicallity of the game.

If rugby was Americas main game the rest of the world would be second rate in comparison. Sorry but you can't argue that the skill, size, speed of the elite sports star african american is phenomenal.

Lucky for us their to tied up with the NFL.

[TOCC]

agreed, was watching the Superbowl today, and the athelticism of those players is amazing.

[welshrugbyfan]

agreed, was watching the Superbowl today, and the athelticism of those players is amazing.

I think the US Eagle that burnt Habana in the RWC is only a slice of what it would be like.

[AndyS]

Not sure I would extend the performance of Ngwenya to the forwards though. Yes there are some extraordinary and big athletes in American football, but can they run, tackle and pass, in both attack and defence, for 80 minutes? You'd have to think some might, but they'd almost certainly not be the biggest or fastest of them - they have specialised in a game that rewards specialisation. What the Eagles would be looking for would be the brilliant allrounder, and they may well have not been on display because they didn't even make the grade for pro-ball. How the Eagles go about finding them though...?

[James]

Not sure I would extend the performance of Ngwenya to the forwards though. Yes there are some extraordinary and big athletes in American football, but can they run, tackle and pass, in both attack and defence, for 80 minutes? You'd have to think some might, but they'd almost certainly not be the biggest or fastest of them - they have specialised in a game that rewards specialisation. What the Eagles would be looking for would be the brilliant allrounder, and they may well have not been on display because they didn't even make the grade for pro-ball. How the Eagles go about finding them though...?

American NFL fatties do even less running than British rugby fatties. You've got your attacking team and defensive team and specialist team in NFL. Aside from that you've got time outs and huddles in order to regain your energy. They look brilliant but I doubt they'd hold up under scrutiny in an open game of union.

They are so bloody lazy they don't even bother grounding the ball. Phhhffft.

[Burgs]

Possibly a more polite version of James' statement is that NRL players are highly specialised pieces of a tactical jigsaw who focus on explosive power rather than endurance which may be hard to be made applicable to a flowing code like Rugby...

That's not to say that they couldn't be awesome if they had grown up playing Rugby, a bit like some miss the point when discussing what a footy player may have been like as a Rugby player. Their whole junior development would be different resulting in a different physique and skill set.

[welshrugbyfan]

Possibly a more polite version of James' statement is that NRL players are highly specialised pieces of a tactical jigsaw who focus on explosive power rather than endurance which may be hard to be made applicable to a flowing code like Rugby...

That's not to say that they couldn't be awesome if they had grown up playing Rugby, a bit like some miss the point when discussing what a footy player may have been like as a Rugby player. Their whole junior development would be different resulting in a different physique and skill set.

Good work Burgs you put some thought into it.

I don't mean that all of a sudden all the NFL players could convert to rugby and they would be the world leaders. Like Burgs has considered if there was never NFL in the world and these athletes had grown up with the game. Their physicallity would be very different and with their natural athleticism we would be struggling to beat them.

Just look at the 100m for a tiny example, not a lot of white guys winning there. African americans just have different muscle fibres, there born with a gift that whiteys don't get usually. They do have the disadvantage of not being born swimmers as their tighter muscle fibres make them heavier in water, hence the reason you don't see black swimmers in the olympics.

It's just facts, I wish for us rugby fans we could see it. Although it is the fastest growing sport in the US now so down the track who knows.

[James]

Possibly a more polite version of James' statement is that NRL players are highly specialised pieces of a tactical jigsaw who focus on explosive power rather than endurance which may be hard to be made applicable to a flowing code like Rugby...

I'm becoming impolite? Someone please help me now. Next thing I know I'll wake up and will have turned into Chiselhead.

[thunderchicken9]

Well, having grown up playing several sports here, American football, baseball, basketball, & rugby, we have some incredibly gifted athletes, of all races, but yes, particularly African-Americans. But it goes beyond sheer athleticism for the world-class guys here; athletics to them is the key to a better life. The chances of a kid playing in the NFL are slight; but a gifted American football player can get a free education just because of his athletic talent - therefore the competition's incredible! Here it's a question of sheer numbers- remember our population is 300,000,000.. As WRF says, these guys, the world-class athletes, could put USA Rugby at the top- Of the 300 million people in the USA, about 165,000 are registered with USA Rugby. What needs to happen for our best to come out is the same competition that makes us so competitive in other sports. Only money, or, better yet, athletic scholarships to U.S. universities can make 165,000 become 1.65 million..Then everyone will see the size and speed comparable to our NFL from American athletes.. At the same time, don't sell your athletes short.. I've seen some guys on the pitch who would be darn good running backs/defensive backs and/or linebackers in the NFL!!!

[Burgs]

Just noticed a typo, I obviously meant NFL not NRL in above post.

I think you are fairly safe there James

[James]

I see the USA as a domino effect that would completely entrench rugby as the number 2 sport in the world. After its big the in the USA those on the cusp who are eligible for Canada will take that up and it will spread south into Mexico and China always seems keen to follow the Americans in sport.... on and on and on.
You just know as soon as the USA pick it up properly the money that will start to get pumped in added to the prestige will likely give rugby the upperhand where it is starting to slip against rugby union.

Whether US powerbrokers will try to hijack the game is a bit of a concern. Can't say no to some of the money they can offer. Its hard enough to compete with Europe.

[thunderchicken9]

Whether US powerbrokers will try to hijack the game is a bit of a concern.

With you there James, rugby should remain a global game - I think what's most likely to happen - in my lifetime at least - is that rugby will grow here, possibly to the point of having a truly professional team or two - maybe North and South American sides in an expanded Super 14 - Possibly Super 20? Who knows? Long row to hoe... I'll be happy if it replaces soccer as the heir-apparent to the U.S.A.'s "next-biggest team sport" -

[Burgs]

After considerable faffing about due to a very slow internet connection I have now managed to slice this pile of posts away from Ben Castles debut thread, if he had come on to have a look as it was he would be scratching his head a little...

A possible path for the US would be to form a six team comp with Canada and Argentina (if Argentina doesn't come into the Super xx).

Have two teams each:


USA West (Colorado & California?)
USA North East (the Universities?)

Canada West
Canada East

Agrentina Buenos Aires
Argentina Interior (ie all but the Capital)

[James]

After considerable faffing about due to a very slow internet connection I have now managed to slice this pile of posts away from Ben Castles debut thread, if he had come on to have a look as it was he would be scratching his head a little...

A possible path for the US would be to form a six team comp with Canada and Argentina (if Argentina doesn't come into the Super xx).

Have two teams each:


USA West (Colorado & California?)
USA North East (the Universities?)

Canada West
Canada East

Agrentina Buenos Aires
Argentina Interior (ie all but the Capital)

Now we are cooking Burgs. How about a Super 24 yeah with the current 14 teams those six that you mention plus one each from Tonga, Samoa, Japan and Fiji. In three conferences East (USA/Canada/Argentina/South Island NZ), Middle (North Island NZ/three Islanders/NSW/QLD), and East (Force/Brumbies/Japan/5 Saffas). Playing home and away. Then the 24 teams get seeded into three sets of 8 team finals based on points. Automatic knock out playing for a cup/bowl/plate. That way even the shitty teams like the Waratahs etc get a chance to actually win a final. So we'd be talking 14 weeks of main competition plus 3 weeks of finals. With a bye between main comp and finals and one in the middle of the main comp you'd be talking 19 weeks. Not too shabby in my books.

[TOCC]

even if rugby union in the US does make it to the next step of been professional and gaining popularity, its still going to face the problems of player retention. It will be like the NRL poaching rugby union players back in the 80's, any player who shows the the slightest amount of talent will be picked up by the NFL.