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Thread: The Fifth Australian Super Rugby Team

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    The Fifth Australian Super Rugby Team

    So, it is starting to become topical again due to SANZAR needing to resolve the future of Super Rugby this winter.
    Apart from the best location for viability, which can be for a different thread, the other most raised concern is player depth.
    This of course is why the ARC and APC were being developed, to build the numbers and depth of elite and near elite players within our shores however, as can be seen by the list below, it will be more of a case of attracting players home now.

    There are still some very good players in Sydney and Brisbane Club Rugby who may play in positions we already have great depth in, or may be a little later in maturing, so they will also come under consideration.

    Purely by way of demonstrating player depth, don't get too hung up on individuals, I have listed the players I have found who are listed playing in the NH this season.
    There are certainly others I have missed, as well as those in English 1st Div at least.
    The main point to consider is that the new entity will need to find 32 players from this list, Clubland and the other four S14 teams to come into existence, I think it is theoretically very realistic, with or without Pacific Island input.

    2009 Northern Hemisphere Australian Players:

    Props

    Rodney Blake Aviron Bayonnais French Top 14
    Ben Coutts Stade Montois French Top 14
    Daniel Roach Ulster Magners League

    Hookers

    Alex Walker Saracens Guinness Premiership League

    Locks

    Mark Gilbride IBM Big Blue Japanese Top League
    Michael Aldridge Rugby Roma Olimpic Italy Super 10
    Cameron Treloar Rugby Calvisano Italy Super 10
    Justin Harrison Bath Guinness Premiership League
    Tim Swinson Newcastle Falcons Guinness Premiership League

    Openside

    Leiataua Tomiki Castres Olympique French Top 14

    Flanker

    Ben White Cardiff Blues Magners League

    Blindside

    Rocky Elsom Leinster Magners League

    Backrow

    Daniel Heenan Sanyo Wild Knights Japanese Top League

    Number 8

    Fotunuupule Auelua RC Toulonnais French Top 14
    Toutai Kefu Kubota Spears Japanese Top League
    Todd Ollivier Rugby Roma Olimpic Italy Super 10
    Justin Purll Rugby Calvisano Italy Super 10
    David Lyons Llanelli Scarlets Magners League

    Scrumhalf

    Matt Henjak RC Toulonnais French Top 14
    Sam Cordingley FC Grenoble French Pro D2
    Nic Berry Racing Metro 92 Paris French Pro D2
    Tim Atkinson Kyuden Voltex Japanese Top League
    Chris Whitaker Leinster Magners League

    Flyhalf

    Manuel Edmonds Aviron Bayonnais French Top 14
    Brock James ASM Clermont Auvergne French Top 14
    Christian Warner Rugby Roma Olimpic Italy Super 10
    Tim Donnelly Connacht Magners League
    Paul Warwick Munster Magners League
    Shaun Berne Bath Guinness Premiership League
    Chris Malone Harlequin FC Guinness Premiership League

    Centre

    Craig Gower Aviron Bayonnais French Top 14
    Lachlan MacKay CA Brive French Top 14
    Steven Kefu Castres Olympique French Top 14
    Mark Gasnier Stade Francais French Top 14
    Mafileo Kefu RC Toulonnais French Top 14
    Chris Siale Tarbes Pyrenees French Pro D2
    Josh Gamgee IBM Big Blue Japanese Top League
    Nathan Grey Kyuden Voltex Japanese Top League
    Peter-William Marrapodi Rugby Roma Olimpic Italy Super 10
    Lloyd Johansson Rugby Viadana Italy Super 10
    Rory Sidey Newport Gwent Dragons Magners League
    Marc Stcherbina Newport Gwent Dragons Magners League
    Greg Barden Bristol Guinness Premiership League
    Ben Jacobs Saracens Guinness Premiership League

    Utility Back

    Mark Bartholomeusz Petrarca Padova Rugby Italy Super 10

    Wing

    Luke Rooney RC Toulonnais French Top 14
    Lachlan Mitchell London Wasps Guinness Premiership League
    Peter Miller Kyuden Voltex Japanese Top League

    Fullback

    Damian McInally Kubota Spears Japanese Top League
    Brendan Williams Benetton Rugby Treviso Italy Super 10
    Liam Bibo Connacht Magners League
    Clinton Schifcofske Ulster Magners League
    Peter Hewat London Irish Guinness Premiership League
    Chris Latham Worcester Warriors Guinness Premiership League

    And what's a big Burgs post without a selection involved so, without fear or favour (and wishing a couple of stars were just a little bit younger!), here is-

    Burgs' 2009 Northern Hemisphere Australian XV:

    1. Ben Coutts Stade Montois French Top 14
    2. Alex Walker Saracens Guinness Premiership League
    3. Rodney Blake Aviron Bayonnais French Top 14
    4. Tim Swinson Newcastle Falcons Guinness Premiership League
    5. Cameron Treloar Rugby Calvisano Italy Super 10
    6. Rocky Elsom Leinster Magners League (C)
    7. Leiataua Tomiki Castres Olympique French Top 14
    8. David Lyons Llanelli Scarlets Magners League

    9. Matt Henjak RC Toulonnais French Top 14
    10. Brock James ASM Clermont Auvergne French Top 14
    11. Lachlan Mitchell London Wasps Guinness Premiership League
    12. Lachlan MacKay CA Brive French Top 14
    13. Lloyd Johansson Rugby Viadana Italy Super 10
    14. Brendan Williams Benetton Rugby Treviso Italy Super 10
    15. Liam Bibo Connacht Magners League

    16. Hooker
    17. Daniel Roach Ulster Magners League
    18. Michael Aldridge Rugby Roma Olimpic Italy Super 10
    19. Daniel Heenan Sanyo Wild Knights Japanese Top League
    20. Nic Berry Racing Metro 92 Paris French Pro D2
    21. Manuel Edmonds Aviron Bayonnais French Top 14
    22. Mark Bartholomeusz Petrarca Padova Rugby Italy Super 10

    23. Prop
    24. Prop
    25. Hooker
    26. Mark Gilbride IBM Big Blue Japanese Top League
    27. Ben White Cardiff Blues Magners League

    28. Tim Atkinson Kyuden Voltex Japanese Top League
    29. Craig Gower Aviron Bayonnais French Top 14
    30. Mark Gasnier Stade Francais French Top 14
    31. Mafileo Kefu RC Toulonnais French Top 14
    32. Chris Siale Tarbes Pyrenees French Pro D2

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    many of those players left for reasons other then just getting a starting position though, adding a extra team isnt going to bring them back. On top of that, quite a few of those players arent up to the S14 standard either.

    There are many players in the list who i would be very happy to see come back to Australia, Blake, Elsom, Tomiki, LLoyd Johannson, Nic Berry, Daniel Heenan, Craig Gower and Mark Gasnier.

    But out of that list, all of them left or wont come back for reasons other then getting contracts.

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    Yeah, I have to admit, looking down the list I got the feeling you'd get about half a team. But then that may be enough, with young talent stepping up to the opportunity.

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    Absolutely TOCC, that's why I said: Purely by way of demonstrating player depth, don't get too hung up on individuals, I have listed the players I have found who are listed playing in the NH this season.

    In other words Australia has produced that number of players over the last x years and will continue to do so.
    Once there are five established (I don't rate the Force as established yet) teams playing then there will be some attraction to stay.

    In my mind the greatest thing the ARU MUST do is draw more money into the code and compete, not with other Australian sports but on the world stage, we have to lift the bar and be competitive. The need to be looking to double salaries to be in the ball park.

    Edit: Putting a team up at the end is a distraction that I probably shouldn't have done, I'm not suggesting that team would come to Melbourne or wherever, just that it is a pretty handy combination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
    In my mind the greatest thing the ARU MUST do is draw more money into the code and compete, not with other Australian sports but on the world stage, we have to lift the bar and be competitive. The need to be looking to double salaries to be in the ball park.
    perhaps when the competition is expanded the ability to attract money in terms of sponsorship may increase?

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    What we need to be looking at, is the junior rugby union players who are getting picked up by the NRL.

    blokes like Cooper Cronk, William Zillman, Karmichael Hunt, Will Tupou, Dane Gagai, Joseph Tomane and Jarred Waerea-Hargreaves..

    Im not saying we target these players to play for the 5th team(although that would be good), im saying we need the 5th team to prevent players like these defecting in the future.

    People keep saying that we dont have the depth, well i think thats a load of crap, until australian rugby has a 100% retention rate on all state and country schoolboy reps then i believe there is room for expansion.

    ---------- Post added at 15:37 ---------- Previous post was at 15:34 ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jargan83 View Post
    perhaps when the competition is expanded the ability to attract money in terms of sponsorship may increase?
    I think that is indeed the idea, players salaries will go up with a expanded competition, they get paid match bonusses on top of there standar salaries, so all players can expect a pay rise alongside the expanded competition.

    I expect sponsors would be willing to pay more for sponsorship due to the longer seasons and increased exposure as well.

    RUPA and the ARU have a deal where a certain % of the overall revenue must go towards the players salaries, so in the event of increasing broadcast rights and sponorship we will see player salaries increase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOCC View Post
    People keep saying that we dont have the depth, well i think thats a load of crap, until australian rugby has a 100% retention rate on all state and country schoolboy reps then i believe there is room for expansion
    We have 32,000 people playing the code, surely out of that we can get 160.

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    Perhaps they should also open up the NH system where "Joe's Plumbing" can buy the sponsorship rights of any player he can afford.
    I am not familiar with the whole system, but when you read the player profiles of especially the Guinness League there are some fairly obscure player sponsors there.
    Some have more than one, some sponsors take on a couple of fringe players.
    You would think that with the Club listing the sponsor on the profile page that they are involved though.
    I don't understand at all the mentality that the Club can't be involved in third party deals in S14.

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    Veteran mudskipper's Avatar
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    If the next Aussie Super team has time to recruit they'll get a reasonable squad... they need more than a half season to approach players...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mudskipper View Post
    If the next Aussie Super team has time to recruit they'll get a reasonable squad... they need more than a half season to approach players...
    the ratified proposal needs to be handed to News Corp by June, at which point if it is accepted then the new province license will probably be handed out by at least October. Leaving the new team with a decent 18months to assemble and recruit for there first game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOCC View Post
    the ratified proposal needs to be handed to News Corp by June, at which point if it is accepted then the new province license will probably be handed out by at least October. Leaving the new team with a decent 18months to assemble and recruit for there first game.
    But do they have to nominate the 15th team by June?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mudskipper View Post
    But do they have to nominate the 15th team by June?
    hmm, my first thougth was no, they only need to know which country(aru or saru) is going to host the team.

    but im assuming the broadcasters would want to know which city is going to have the team so they can work outs its value.

    Surely if Australia gets the extra team there isnt enough time to have a proper bidding process between now and june.. although it would be safe to assume that Melbourne has it in the bag.

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    After the ARC Gold Coast team the east Coast Acers not getting great support, the Central Coast NSW not worth the risk and either is Western Sydney who wont open up new markets.... Melbourne with a new stadium is deemed to be a walk in and should attracted good start up sponsors, even in these difficult times which the other Australia zones wont.... Melbourne would still have its old pitch drafted, up date and add new sponsors with their central stadium they;ll get the gig...

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    I concur, Melbourne will get the gig

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    give it to the westies- melbournes a hole with the MCG at the centre of it ....

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