Force players in the Shute Shield

[TOCC]

So just to be clear, you are saying that any WA or ACT Wallabies not in the match squad would go back to play ARC, while the Q'ld and NSW players would likely go back to the level below (as they surely can't all be playing for the two or three top clubs)?

Personally, I don't care how they do it. For mine, the ARU shouldn't have bought into it - they should have just gone to the respective state unions, told them how many teams they were to supply and let them decide for themselves how it was going to be done. If the QRU and NSWRU wanted to play favourites, that should have been left up to them.

yeah thats pretty much what im saying, the ARC shouldnt run until after the club season ends so the S14 players will be playing in the club teams regardless.

I think the clubs should have at least had more of a say on the topic, at least if Gary Flowers had let the clubs be involved and had there say on the topic, they would have probably been more supportive of the end concept rather then having luncheons and gala days on the same days as ARC matches.

anyway, this ARC issues has been argued to death, lets get back to the topic of Force players in the Shute Shield

[James]

you realise NSW/QLD clubland represent 90% of the rugby players in Australia, its easy to sit there in Perth and say that they need to be ignored, but they really are a massive player in all this.

When i said promotion/relegation, what i should have said is that the top 2 or 3 teams from each competition progress through to the ARC(equivelent) each year. Kind of like the A-League and the Asian Championship.

Yeah I know that they are highly representative and so too do they. What they want serves their own needs and isn't what is best for Australian rugby. What I/we want serves our own needs but it also grows the game into WA and VIC and strengthens it in the ACT. It closes the gap between club level and S14 level and that benefits all of the S14 sides. I respect that they want to preserve their history but like you say they can do that by playing club rugby during the S14 and using the non-required Waratahs and Reds (and maybe Brumbies) players.

[TOCC]

Yeah I know that they are highly representative and so too do they. What they want serves their own needs and isn't what is best for Australian rugby. What I/we want serves our own needs but it also grows the game into WA and VIC and strengthens it in the ACT. It closes the gap between club level and S14 level and that benefits all of the S14 sides. I respect that they want to preserve their history but like you say they can do that by playing club rugby during the S14 and using the non-required Waratahs and Reds (and maybe Brumbies) players.

yeah thats fair enough, but by pushing ahead with a rather audacious plan you may in fact be damaging rugby in its heartland. From what i witnessed none of the ARC teams contributed to the growth of rugby in QLD or NSW in any way, if anything they damaged the game.

Rugby is a strange game, its built on the fundamentals of amateurism, a sport built upon camaraderie, heritage and equality. The reason i say this is because thats what many of the people in the rugby heartlands grew up believing in. Professionalism has changed this substantially, but these are the principles many of the club rugby supporters still follow.

Which is why planting a brightly coloured completely commercialised team in a region like Brisbane or Sydney is never going to work.

All i am saying, is that for a club competition to work in australia it needs to be worked in with the NSW and QLD clubs in some form, snubbing your nose at them because its for the greater good of rugby elsewhere is just hypocritical.

Say what you want, but these are the realities of the situation.

[James]

Yeah fair enough. Like we both say though if its outside of the club rugby window it would work. In that case it'd be unfair of them to stand in its way.

[Working Class]

TOCC

I wasn't intentionally disregarding the Brisbane clubs. Just trying to get a even spread. My view is we need to either have an ARC or the ARU and State Unions need to work very hard towards

1. Improving club Rugby in Sydney and Brisbane further and promoting both competitions.

2. Get the Perth Competition up to roughly the same level as the Eastern Comps. More development of juniors. Promote the Comp, get it on TV. ABC?. Grow Country Rugby further. Make it a real option to Football and Soccer.

3. As Melbourne will likely have the 15th Super licence. Develop the premier Division to a level appropriate to begin to produce Professional Talent.

4. Grow the game in SA so all existing clubs have juniors in all ages and grades 1 -5 plus colts. establish more clubs.

5. strengthen ACT/Southern NSW

6. Develop a nationwide schools program to get the game played in every school nationwide.