Melbourne allowed up to 10 foreigners for Super 15 debut

[Burgs]

Is there a mention anywhere of a sunset on this allowance?
Haven't had a chance to read everything fully but I hope that it isn't open ended.

[TOCC]

Is there a mention anywhere of a sunset on this allowance?
Haven't had a chance to read everything fully but I hope that it isn't open ended.

Yes it will be rolled back each year until 2015 when they will have the same as the other provinces, basically they lose 2 spots each year
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[GIGS20]

Im also saying that Force force fans should be aware that they werent the only ones disadvantaged by not having such a rule in place when the Force was created, the other provinces were hurt as well, reds especially.

On the contrary TOCC, I think most Force fans argue exactly what you argue, just in the more positive light of the group who benefitted from the "plundering" Force fans would say we did what we had to do, and if this had been sorted properly in 2005 we'd not only have a stronger Reds team, but we'd also have an established precedent which everybody was happy with.

I honestly don't think the Force would suffer as much as Queensland if the total lack of concessions was the paradigm again, my concern is that the Force's inception did weaken Aussie teams' performance in the S14 and improperly managed, so will Melbourne's.

I also think this situation could be done without increasing the number of foreign players.....and also without increasing the number of Wallaby candidates by simply allowing all teams to access the same pool of players. ie currently 4 Marquees and 4 Development, change it to 5 marquees and 10 development, that's one marquee and 2 development per team, require that the developers come from PI or Argentina and this will make Aussie players available by the fact that teams will drop some players to make room.

The only problem with this is that the current S14 teams have no say in where a player can go once he is out of contract, the only way this could work is if the player is still under-contract, im not to sure of the rules but i believe somewhere under IRB regulations such a 'trade' is against the rules. On top of that, i dont see any of the Australian sides releasing any of there players who are still undercontract.

I guess it's not necessarily that way, couldn't the draft be more like the NZ model, where the union has a certain number of players they're allowed to contract and the remainder are open slather? (I'm not saying that's a perfect model at all, but the players realise very strongly that they're contracted to the NZRU)

[TOCC]

On the contrary TOCC, I think most Force fans argue exactly what you argue, just in the more positive light of the group who benefitted from the "plundering" Force fans would say we did what we had to do, and if this had been sorted properly in 2005 we'd not only have a stronger Reds team, but we'd also have an established precedent which everybody was happy with.

I honestly don't think the Force would suffer as much as Queensland if the total lack of concessions was the paradigm again, my concern is that the Force's inception did weaken Aussie teams' performance in the S14 and improperly managed, so will Melbourne's.

I also think this situation could be done without increasing the number of foreign players.....and also without increasing the number of Wallaby candidates by simply allowing all teams to access the same pool of players. ie currently 4 Marquees and 4 Development, change it to 5 marquees and 10 development, that's one marquee and 2 development per team, require that the developers come from PI or Argentina and this will make Aussie players available by the fact that teams will drop some players to make room.

it will never be as bad as what it was back in 2005, purely because there is now a larger playing pool to pick from, at the end of the day i guess there are dozens of different ways that you could use the foreign concession rule.

I think maybe the ARU looked at the fact that only QLD and WA used the conession in 2009 and additionally NSW in 2010, ACT havent even used there conecession. Whilst it was a hot topic at the time, it didnt see the influx of foreign players that we could have initially expected. How many foreign development players are there, Hendrik Roodt and Tim Fairbrother, that means only half the development positions are filled.

The unions were more willing to promote within there academy's where possible, you could argue that they could be more willing to scout foreign players if the Melbourne team plundered there roster, but at the same time its preferable for everyone for purely the Melbourne team to recruit the foreign players. Prevent a possible player exodus from the current S14 teams so that they can retain there combinations and 'profile'.

Undobutedly each team is going to lose a 3-5 players each anyway, just as long as it isnt 7-10.

I guess it's not necessarily that way, couldn't the draft be more like the NZ model, where the union has a certain number of players they're allowed to contract and the remainder are open slather? (I'm not saying that's a perfect model at all, but the players realise very strongly that they're contracted to the NZRU)

Yeah the only problem with a draft system is that you would have a real hard time pushing it past RUPA, on top of that you dont want to see the debacle that the NRL had in 1991 with Terry Hill.

[James]

Fairbrother isn't a development player he is eligible for the Wallabies through and Australian grandmother.

[GIGS20]

Yeah the only problem with a draft system is that you would have a real hard time pushing it past RUPA, on top of that you dont want to see the debacle that the NRL had in 1991 with Terry Hill.

Yeah I wasn't suggesting that Draft was the best way to go. I'm a bit of a free market kinda guy, but the level playing field idea within that free market is vital otherwise you get teams like Real Madrid buying anybody who likes money to cover up for an average development program.

[TOCC]

Fairbrother isn't a development player he is eligible for the Wallabies through and Australian grandmother.

of course, so do the Force have a development player or are they only using the foreign marquee concession?

[sandgroperrugby]

Forget 2011 for a minute I think it will be 2012 when the shit really hits the fan! Gits, Sharpe, Smith, Baxter, Hoiles, Palu, Chislom, Mortlock, Waugh, Dunning, Shepherdson and perhaps Moore are all potentially off for a super top up in the northern hemisphere (maybe a few more players as well). If this happens or even half these guys it would seriously decimate the experienced depth in Australia and looking at this list the Brumbies are in serious trouble.

[mudskipper]

it will help strenghten all Australian teams... less pressure... Go the Rebels

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 ----------

Forget 2011 for a minute I think it will be 2012 when the shit really hits the fan! Gits, Sharpe, Smith, Baxter, Hoiles, Palu, Chislom, Mortlock, Waugh, Dunning, Shepherdson and perhaps Moore are all potentially off for a super top up in the northern hemisphere (maybe a few more players as well). If this happens or even half these guys it would seriously decimate the experienced depth in Australia and looking at this list the Brumbies are in serious trouble.

Nup thats fine they'll develop and rebuild like before... No player line up lasts for ever... Its about 2010 now and winning the 3rd championship...

[James]

of course, so do the Force have a development player or are they only using the foreign marquee concession?

Only the Marquee player atm. They are holding out for a hooker with the development player slot. I've heard talk that if the *somehow* get Australian hooker (either from the Shute Shield or Ole Avei) they might look into taking a development lock or winger.

---------- Post added at 12:27 ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 ----------

Forget 2011 for a minute I think it will be 2012 when the shit really hits the fan! Gits, Sharpe, Smith, Baxter, Hoiles, Palu, Chislom, Mortlock, Waugh, Dunning, Shepherdson and perhaps Moore are all potentially off for a super top up in the northern hemisphere (maybe a few more players as well). If this happens or even half these guys it would seriously decimate the experienced depth in Australia and looking at this list the Brumbies are in serious trouble.

Yeah there will probably be a fair bit of departure but those who are still current Wallabies will probably stay to play against the B&I Lions in 2013. Once in a lifetime opportunity. I am starting to think Sharpie won't go overseas. If the Force management were smart they'd try to keep him on as a bit of a player/coach for the post-Mitch era and have backs-based head coach.

[sandgroperrugby]

it will help strenghten all Australian teams... less pressure... Go the Rebels

---------- Post added at 11:49 ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 ----------



Nup thats fine they'll develop and rebuild like before... No player line up lasts for ever... Its about 2010 now and winning the 3rd championship...

Didn’t know you were part ostrich as well as being a fish out of water!

Yeah there will probably be a fair bit of departure but those who are still current Wallabies will probably stay to play against the B&I Lions in 2013. Once in a lifetime opportunity. I am starting to think Sharpie won't go overseas. If the Force management were smart they'd try to keep him on as a bit of a player/coach for the post-Mitch era and have backs-based head coach.

Didnt think of that James yeah a few would stay just for that wouldnt they

[Thequeerone]

I vote that they use their quota on the backbone of the Irish Team or similar - if they went for a squad approach in a world cup year it would add spice/ depth/ colour to the competition - it might also prove to be an affordable option - oddly I do feel for the lot of Reds Fans, however given the Qld system really feel/ felt that if it wasn't the Force it would have been Europe for many of them