Union's 'failure' to nurture indigenous stars

[TOCC]

i think we can all agree then that rugby union isnt a white supremicits organisation, its in turn actually restricted historically by its confide to private schools but also due to modern era factors like exposure of the game(or lack thereof) in available mediums like FTA broadcast...

$20 says that the bloke who wrote this article just finished watching invictus and translated that story to australia.

[James]

Depends - if the kids want to play but the pathways aren't there then there is a problem. If the pathways are there and they're not interested then not so much.

Yeah I guess so but there are limitations on pathways in WA for everyone. Rugby is about as complex a team sport as they come what with the breakdown, scrummaging and line-outs and outside of Perth and perhaps Bunbury/Albany it is probably too hard to set up much by way of a meaningful competition partly due to the technicalities and partly due to the distance between major centres. There is a bit of a socio-economic barrier but there are bigger barriers to consider.

Besides, I've seen a handful of kids with Thornlie SHS rugby gear on. Now Thornlie is a state school in a low-medium socio-economic area but they don't seem like they are having difficulty providing a pathway for young people. Can't speak for many of the other state schools.

I doubt that any kid in Perth who really wanted to play rugby union would have a big difficulty in finding a pathway if they had their heart set on it.

[brokendown gunfighter]

It's a pity that very few aboriginal kids get the opportunity to play rugby

many years ago when i was playing a game of touch,i came up against a couple of aboriginal players who had amazing skills,& ran rings around us.They were Phil & keith Narkle,who were great AFL players,who could easily have made the big time in rugby
there is so much untapped talent out there

[beige]

I remember my dad telling me stories of how he helped set up both a rugby team and rugby league team in an outback town in NSW (I don't remember which - he's passed away now) because the local indigenous kids literally had nothing to do. He would have to drive around the surrounding area in a pick up truck before every training session just so the kids could train. Don't know how typical that story is...

[James]

By that logic the ARU should not make any effort to get caucasian kids in WA, Vic or anywhere for that matter because they are happy playing AFL, League or Football?

No not really. All I was saying is that there is no need to feel ashamed for not focussing on one specific group. The ARU should make an effort to get kids (regardless of their ethnic/cultural group) to play rugby. Once you've got lots of kids then sure fill in the gaps but aboriginal kids who want to play rugby are a minority and until rugby is strongly established in WA we need to focus on just getting as many possible to play.

I would put $20 on that too TOCC.

[Burgs]

TOCC, I'd go $10 each way on your version and the author being overlooked at State U/14's Trials

On the issue of "the issue for RWA", perhaps their biggest "concern" is keeping League as a minority sport in WA in comparison.

OK, so having covered the Aboriginal participation aspect of the article a little, how about the flipside arguement, in WA are their many Polynesian Coach's, Assistant Coach's, Managers, Committee Members etc in comparison to Club Members?

[jazza93]

I would say the juniors are very mixed, i'm a ref and i guarantee you i got shouted at by a coach in every accent on the planet last season. But i think most of the admin in clubs is mainly kiwis, south africans, poms and Australians.

[Sheikh]

I would say the juniors are very mixed, i'm a ref and i guarantee you i got shouted at by a coach in every accent on the planet last season. But i think most of the admin in clubs is mainly kiwis, south africans, poms and Australians.

I think that's quite common, a sort of unconscious racism, thinking that aboriginals make good players but wouldn't be considered as coaches. I'm not a follower of AFL, so I don't know how many of their coaches are aboriginal - is it a similar ratio to the number of aboriginal players?

I know that in the UK the black population is only about 2%, but the percentage of black soccer players is more like 20%. In the 130-odd professional soccer teams only half a dozen managers are black.

[James]

Yeah but you've also got to ask how old is your average soccer manager (I'd guess about 40-50) now 25-30 years so (when those managers were actually playing) what percentage of players in the EPL were black? I would hazard another guess at a whole lot less than 20%.

[Burgs]

That is a good point James.
A trip through Southern Africa can show you the down side of afirmitive action purely for the sake of balance on paper.
As you suggest, we will most likely see the pool of Coaches chane over time simply on actual numbers.

[welshrugbyfan]

Besides, I've seen a handful of kids with Thornlie SHS rugby gear on. Now Thornlie is a state school in a low-medium socio-economic area but they don't seem like they are having difficulty providing a pathway for young people. Can't speak for many of the other state schools.

I doubt that any kid in Perth who really wanted to play rugby union would have a big difficulty in finding a pathway if they had their heart set on it.

Armadale is the same.

I've heard the NBA is having the same problem trying to recruit white guys.

[shasta]

A trip through Southern Africa can show you the down side of afirmitive action purely for the sake of balance on paper.

I don't think that has anything to do with it, Burgs.

I've just finished watching the NRL-v-Indigenous match. It's clear that Australian Rugby would be better off having a percentage of those players in their ranks. From both teams. The replays on Fox are well worth a look, even, for the Mungo haters, just to see the skills on show. For this time of the year it was a showpiece.

On reflection, it's not really a matter of whether tha ARU should target indigenous kids. More that they should be looking to do more in the lower socio-economic groups. That's where all the troubled Mungos come from isn't it?

But it's where the other 90% of had working good kids come from too. The best footballers in the country.

Perhaps the suggestion of two of the best minds from either code in Oz, Alec Evans and Wayne Bennett is on the right track. They reckon the NRL & ARL should jointly fund a hybrid game for juniors. Then when the kids are old enough to progress to the senior ranks they would have the skills for either game and choose the one they like best and/or are most suited to. They contend that's the best way to counter the two Gorillas in the room. I tend to agree.

[Burgs]

You may have misunderstood what I was meaning shasta, when I was in SA I saw many instances where under (if not "un") qualified people had been fast tracked to positions of authority, to the detriment of productivity and accountability, in the name of affirmative action.
To make the case in sport, I think I know a little bit about Rugby, but that doesn't mean I could suddenly handle being the Coach of the Force because the ARU decided there needed to be a greater content of country fans involved in the code.
These things can't be rushed or forced and I was agreeing with the point made by James that in Football, due to the change in player base over the last few years, that by natural progression we may well find it flow through to the Coaching stocks before too long.

I watched the match and agree, they are great athletes and would be an asset to Union if they wanted to play, but without a huge amount of work that would be like trying to raise an Australian Rules team in Wellington. Doable, but limited and not cost effective.

Personally I agree that it shouldn't be on anything to do with demographics really at all. The opportunity is in Western Sydney where there is a greater "youth/proteam" ratio than any other feasible area in Australia. If they happen to be lower socio economic or higher indigenous or higher left foot dominant it really doesn't matter.

[shasta]

You may have misunderstood what I was meaning shasta,

With regard to coaching/admin and achieving benchmarks on senior player percentages, I probably did.

If they happen to be lower socio economic or higher indigenous or higher left foot dominant it really doesn't matter.

True. It just happens to pan out that way in Western Sydney. But the ARU needs to assure it's covering all areas where there are high percentages of 8-15 year olds. Regarding the most efficient use of the available resources; the ARU & the NRL would do well to listen to Evans & Bennett, bury the hatchet and pool their development funds. Might be pie in the sky but they could get more bang for their bucks and we would likely end up with the best national teams in both codes in 10 years time.

[Burgs]

It's an interesting hypothetical (as in, I can't see it ever happening unfortunately) as you would have to say there are always players who are in "the wrong code", that is, all other things considered, their body shape, fitness profile etc means they may do well in the sport they are in but actually excel if given a chance in another.
It would certainly be turning back the clock, about one hundred years, to combine them all. Probably their only hope would be through the schools, a bit like when Kanga Cricket came in to vogue by a decision from cricket and education "central".