Australia S15 conference - what the saffers think

[travelling_gerry]

Super 15 a setback for Aussies

Sep 15, 2010 12:25 AM | By Craig Ray
Monday's official launch of Super15 rugby laid out a map of the new venture, one that could see Australian rugby lose even more ground over the coming years.

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'Crowd attendances and TV ratings have slipped in Australia'

When the original Super12 expanded to the Super14 in 2006, Australia's performances in the tournament dropped alarmingly and by further diluting their playing resources they're unlikely to improve.
Despite recent poor results, the Australian Rugby Union fought hard to secure a fifth franchise in the tournament when news of expansion was mooted - even though the statistics show that they're falling behind.
Between 1996 and 2005 the Brumbies played in five finals and the Waratahs in one.
The Brumbies have won the tournament twice since its inception in 1996 - yet have failed to make the semi-finals since the tournament grew to 14 teams.
Since the expansion to Super14, which robbed the franchise of key players such as Matt Giteau, who joined the newly formed Western Force, they've finished sixth, fifth, ninth, seventh and sixth.
In the previous nine seasons their log positions were fifth, second, 10th, fifth, second, first, second, fourth and first.
In five seasons of Super14 the Waratahs carried the flag for Australia, reaching the final once (2008) and the semi-finals three times while the Reds fell away spectacularly until a mini resurgence in 2010 gave them fifth spot.
The Queensland side won the pre-professionalism Super10 in 1994 and 1995 and topped the inaugural Super12 log in 1996 before losing in the semi-finals to the Sharks.
The Reds made the semis in 1999 after again topping the log but have since failed to make the play-offs.
With the formation of the Western Force the Reds and the Brumbies have only fleetingly looked like semi-final contenders and now the introduction of the Melbourne Rebels is set to further erode Australia's playing resources.
Crowd attendances and television ratings have slipped in Australia and the introduction of a fifth team is unlikely to improve those numbers in the long run. Perhaps initial curiosity will boost crowds, but fans will stay away if they fail to reach the play-offs.
Not that you would know it from the official Super15 media release. "Australia's depth was added to, firstly by the creation of the successful Brumbies franchise in Canberra, and more recently with the additions of the Western Force (2006) and now the Melbourne Rebels (2011)," the statement read.
The ARU's response to "adding" to Australia's depth is to allow the Rebels to include 10 foreign players on its playing roster in 2011. With such a high proportion of non-Australians it's unlikely to build depth in Australian rugby and is why South Africa pushed so hard for its sixth team to be included rather than a fifth Australian team.
Nevertheless, Australia has been awarded another team and it will have to deal with the consequences. Sometimes less is more.



http://www.timeslive.co.za/sport/rug...ck-for-Aussies

[Stone Cold]

I thought we were struggling because we didn't have a successful second tier comp to blood our players in...

[jargan83]

This comming from the nation with 2 Super 14 basket cases in the form of the Lions and the Cheetahs

[sandgroperrugby]

This comming from the nation with 2 Super 14 basket cases in the form of the Lions and the Cheetahs

I thought that with out the injuries to key players last year the Force would have ended up mid to knocking on the door finals tier (meaning all the Australian teams would have finished higher than the bulk of SA and NZ teams). With that in mind I do think the playing depth in Australia now has some parity across the franchises that was lost when the Force came into fruition. There have been no mass exoduses from any of the existing franchises to the Rebels as there was when the Force started! In fact the Rebels seem to have lured a lot of players back into the country so they have effectively increased our depth.

[GIGS20]

I can guarantee at least one Aussie team will make the finals in 2011.

This is the biggest load of wank-esque spin ever.
Take the Brumbies stats. after Matt Giteau was 'robbed' from them they were sixth, then fifth etc but the last one, after he returned, they were sixth.......that proves pretty conclusively that the loss of Gits wasn't the problem......actually he was only on a three year contract, so in the first year he was gone (when succession planning would have been at it's worst) they performed better than the season before he left and the season he returned.

As for the Reds, they were getting smashed since (according to the article) 1999, I fail to see how six years of poor performances can be attributed to the expansion.......actually in the Reds' case, you could argue just as effectively that the cleanout sparked a resurgence, because in only five years they became semi-finalists.


Personally I think the jury's out as to whether it will be good or not. Melbourne won't have the impact the Force had, simply because the introduction is a bit more managed, with lots of imports being made available to all teams. Melbourne will, though, take quite a while to build momentum, and it'll be a big ask for them to make much difference to junior playing stocks in the first 5 years.

[Sheikh]

There is a point there in that in the 10 years of Super 12 Australia had 11 teams in the finals and 2 wins while SA had 10 and never won it. In the 5 years of Super 14 Australian teams only reached the finals 3 times, while SA teams reached the finals 7 times (and won 3).

But the whole article is a bleat about why didn't South Africa get a sixth team. How would that work with the conferences? The eastern states bleat enough about coming to Perth.

[beige]

But the whole article is a bleat about why didn't South Africa get a sixth team. How would that work with the conferences? The eastern states bleat enough about coming to Perth.

Well they probably will in 2013 with the Southern Kings, which I'm sure will cause some fixturing headaches and mean we miss out on playing 2 South African sides each year.

[James]

The South Africans don't have a leg to stand on. Three of their 5 teams are usually in the bottom 5.

Melbourne Rebels haven't really detracted from the other team that much and if the ARU are smart they won't at all. The ARU being smart is a bit much to bank on though. I reckon as the Melbourne Rebels get established we should work towards every Super 15 team being allowed 2 marquee and 2 development players in their squad of 30. That we we can import to cover the lack of local depth hopefully without any of the 5 teams falling apart.

[zimeric]

Either way this is purely a spin piece and tries to use irrelivent facts to paint a picture that isnt there...

Who won the Mandela plate this year?
Australia lack of depth? sure absolutely when we have 38000 adult players compared to 434219 adult players in SA... boy that really must hurt BAD!!

[Rex Messup]

Rex says bollocks

Australian rugby is really on the way up.

The 5th team will give us approximately 150 professional rugby players on our books and remove the need for the failed 2nd tier competition.

After the advent of the Force, it is clear that after a few years where our player talent was stretched, we now have more genuine options for every wallaby position. The talent is pouring in

The next Lions tour will be the best ever to Australia. As well as the 3 tests, they will play 5 professional rugby provinces instead of turning out against perth Gold amateurs and the NSW country cockatoos amateurs for a one sided hiding as was the case with the last Lions tour.

The rise and rise of Australian rugby. We are at the dawn of the next golden age.......if only we could find a world class tight head prop

[James]

I've long said that the chance for a crack at the Lions is a once in a career opportunity and will probably shelter Australia a bit from the post world cup departures. South Africa and New Zealand will probably lose a lot of players and it will be really interesting to see rugby in 2012.

[TOCC]

there are plenty in RSA still dirty that Melbourne was chosen over the spears, at the end of the day, disregarding the additional team, Australia has more to gain out of a expanded season then South Africa does.

[travelling_gerry]

There are people in AUS that are still dirty that WA was given a team.

But we will take that.






.

[Burgs]

Wonder if this was written between the two high veldt fixtures?

[Timbo]

If you look at the final ladder positions of all Super12/14 seasons, the average finish positions are:

Crusaders 3.93
Brumbies 4.80
Blues 5.27
Waratahs 6.13
Sharks 6.27
Hurricanes 6.47
Bulls 6.87
Stormers 7.14
Chiefs 7.20
Highlanders 7.67
Reds 7.80
Force 9.60
Lions 10.40
Cheetahs 10.83

If you then get the country averages from those results, the 3 nations average positions are:

NZ 6.11
Aus 7.08
SAf 8.30

No matter which way you cut it, the numbers tell a story as to who is bringing up the rear!!