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Thread: Increase the try to 6 points & tell the ref to get his dirty pause off the scrum

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    Increase the try to 6 points & tell the ref to get his dirty pause off the scrum

    Let's increase the try to six points and tell the ref to get his dirty pause off the scrum


    GREG GROWDEN, March 14, 2011


    A month into the season and the usual complaints are being tossed around. The moans have once again begun about matches being determined by penalty goals rather than tries, that the scrums are a mess and there are too many dead spots in games. The nervous nellies are also worried that due to the high Super Rugby attrition rate there may not be anyone of sound body and mind left in the southern hemisphere to play at the World Cup in six months.

    Thankfully Monday Maul has morale-boosting news. There are relatively simple solutions to these problems, or at least words of encouragement to convince all to keep watching.

    A frothy discussion point the past week has been the points structure. After the Brumbies were beaten by the Reds despite scoring four tries to one, concerns that the penalty goal is overvalued were again raised. A better way to approach it is to increase the value of the main pursuit of the game - scoring tries. It's time for administrators to consider increasing the value of a try from five to six points to make it double a penalty goal. Also, forget about reducing the value of a field goal. Three points is the right amount for something that requires skill under pressure and rewards a team in a good territorial position.

    The last time the points system was changed was in July, 1992, when tries were increased from four to five points. Since then the game has changed in many ways, including turning professional, and it is now time for another revision.

    The other justifiable gripe is that scrums are getting in the way of a good match, because of the inordinate amount of time it takes for the set-piece to be completed. Scrum resets are a blight on the game, but what has been as disconcerting this season is that referees have turned the ''crouch-touch-pause-engage'' routine into a torture test.

    It's now taking up to six or seven seconds for referees to utter those four exasperating words, to the extent it has become ''pause-pause again-pause once more and while we're at it let's keep that pause going''. One scrum in the Force-Blues match on Saturday night had to be reset because the two front rows, who were close to nodding off, as they had been motionless for so long, packed against each other before ''engage'' was uttered by referee Nathan Pearce.

    The solution is to just get on with it. Stop the messing about, and let the two packs do what they're paid to do. They are there to scrum, not to be statues. And why not stop the clock while all this scrummaging rigmarole is going on?

    So much time is wasted watching a referee and 16 forwards strut about getting a scrum organised. Stop the clock when the breakdown in play has occurred, and start it again only when the ball has been thrown into the scrum by the halfback. Voila. Ten minutes has been saved instantly.

    And for some whenever the television cameras drift to the sidelines, there are disconcerting signs. Each time there seems to be a key Wallaby centre of screen, watching the action in coat and tie. The list of the sidelined includes Rocky Elsom, David Pocock, Rob Horne, Tatafu Polota-Nau, Wycliff Palu, prompting concerns whether there will be anyone left in September-October.

    Well, those in charge in Wallabyland certainly aren't bothered. As the World Cup is the be-all and end-all of this season, it's better they're sidelined now, resting up, rather than in six months. It's all about timing. As Reds coach Ewen McKenzie explained, this season is not a sprint, it's a 400m race.

    No, make that a 3km steeplechase, and the runners are about to negotiate the first water jump. There's a long way to go, and undoubtedly more thrills and spills to come.

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    get rid of pause leave the points as they are!

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    Last edited by Happy; 14-03-11 at 10:42. Reason: a boo boo
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    Champion Contributor todd4's Avatar
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    The problem with increasing the value of a try means teams will be even more willing to give away penalties in order to prevent tries being scored.

    Srums are far from perfect but at least they are fair-dinkum. I hope we never get to the stage where they become a farce like in league.

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    Any try scored by a forward should be 7 points, by a back - 5 points. No Kick-off to start or restart game - scrum on halfway, same for 22 drop outs, field goal - 1 point.

    Get refs to get real - free kick for crooked lineout throw only if opposition team is competing, If they don't jump - play on.

    Offside at the ruck 60m way if team does pick and drive - play on, crazy to have ref award a penalty because some winger 60m away is offside!!!

    Sealing off by forwards 20 seconds before fulltime to secure a win when opposition do not have numbers to counter ruck and are seagulling to dive on ball when ball is out is play on.

    BTW can someone tell me if there is a time limit when ball is secure at back of ruck for team to play the ball? I do know that if maul stops moving, ref can tell team to play ball ( ref gets to show he can count) BUT I am not aware a ref can tell team to play ball from back of Ruck?

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    Gasp - shock horror - Growden talks sense about scrums.

    I suppose even a stopped clock is right sometimes, but it's a surprise to hear sense from Greg.

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    This is the dumbest thing I've read all week. If front rows could just 'get on with what they are paid to do' we wouldn't need the ref to call the scrum. But the fact that front rows are obsessed with cheating and collapsing every time they get a bad hit shows that Greg's fantasy is impossible.

    Scrums could be fixed immediately if front rows wanted to play fairly. But seeing as that is not the case, we are left with referees trying to solve the problem. Last season everyone was complaining about all the scrums going down, now people are only complaining about the details of the referee's call. It seems as though they are getting something right. Its a problem that isn't going to be fixed overnight, but the scrums seem to be slowly improving with the 4 stage call.

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    (formerly known as Coach) Your Humble Servant Darren's Avatar
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    if you're gonna mess with points, I trhink the conversion should be increased to 3 to bring it in line with other kicks at goal and still provide more possible benefit from scoring tries than penalty shots...

    But I'd prefer if they just leave it alone

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    Veteran beige's Avatar
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    Just leave the points alone - seriously, I can't think of any sport that apologises for itself as much as rugby does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazza93 View Post
    This is the dumbest thing I've read all week. If front rows could just 'get on with what they are paid to do' we wouldn't need the ref to call the scrum. But the fact that front rows are obsessed with cheating and collapsing every time they get a bad hit shows that Greg's fantasy is impossible.

    Scrums could be fixed immediately if front rows wanted to play fairly. But seeing as that is not the case, we are left with referees trying to solve the problem. Last season everyone was complaining about all the scrums going down, now people are only complaining about the details of the referee's call. It seems as though they are getting something right. Its a problem that isn't going to be fixed overnight, but the scrums seem to be slowly improving with the 4 stage call.
    yup, scrums have been fairly good this year, from what i have seen.

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    It seems the greatest issue "people" have is that making the pause a command rather than just verbalising the pause in time it is leaving the packs wound up like a spring too long second guessing each other and the Props holding the weight of the back five. You keep squeezing the trigger eventually it will go off.
    I believe it would be far more effective as:
    CROUCH (Hold them there until stable)
    TOUCH-(pause)-ENGAGE (all within one second with the "pause" silent but being in the beat halfway).
    In other words, once you hear the TOUCH you know you are commited and if you stand up you can expect your Locks to get head butted.

    The "CROUCH p a u s e PAUSE p a u s e ENGAGE" just takes too long and leaves too much time for the pressure to get too much.
    The more detail officials add the more problems we have seen.

    Depowering the engagement to Schoolboys is taking away a major part of the poetry that is scrummaging, it would be like taking the goose step off Campese or the missed kick off Giteau...

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    It isn't new ground here for me to argue for:
    Try 5
    Conversion 2
    Penalty 2
    Drop Goal 1

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    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
    , it would be like taking the goose step off Campese or the missed kick off Giteau...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
    It isn't new ground here for me to argue for:
    Try 5
    Conversion 2
    Penalty 2
    Drop Goal 1
    I would've agreed with you once upon a time but now I realise it would just mean that penalties would be given away willy-nilly to prevent tries being scored. All that dodgy play at the breakdown is bound to occasionally go unnoticed and lead to further complaints about how bad the referee was.

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    If nothing else changed then agreed James, but if combined with a lower tolerance for repeat infringements equalling increase in Yellow Cards.
    I think after a season of rapid rotation in the cooler you would have the desired effect.
    In any case, every time a penalty is given away the attacking team would get that much closer through lineouts (or scrums/taps) until Try or either a Penalty Try &/or YC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by James View Post
    I would've agreed with you once upon a time but now I realise it would just mean that penalties would be given away willy-nilly to prevent tries being scored.
    I've come around to that opinion in much the same way.

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