Question for Ecky?

[Alex]

Ive got a question for Ecky...I hear he's the resident expert regarding refereeing and laws.

In tonights match, Force vs Stormers, the ref was playing advantage to the force. Our boys were hot on attack and Sheehan attempts a cross field kick which is regathered by the stormers. The ref calls advantage over as soon as sheeno kicks the ball, without the force gaining any advantage.

This doesnt seem fair to me. Isnt it akin to taking a drop goal when you have advantage, you miss and get the scrum/penalty? How does this ruling work?

Cheers in advance for your great wisdom oh mighty ecky

[Alex]

or anyone else who knows for that matter

[slomo]

While were on the subject, ecky what's the story with the stormers first try(?), the ball was grounded prior to the line, lost forward, the ref can't keep up with the play, awards the try without going upstairs?.......

[Burgs]

The simplistic way I have had confirmed to me in the past is that advantage provides enough opportunity that would come from a scrum (ie saves setting a scrum), if the player chooses to be a retard then stiff chedar.

[Burgs]

While were on the subject, ecky what's the story with the stormers first try(?), the ball was grounded prior to the line, lost forward, the ref can't keep up with the play, awards the try without going upstairs?.......

Speaking of retards...

[GIGS20]

Whilst we're asking questions of Ecky, do you think my long dead grandmother can ref a game better than Jaco Peyper (at least she would call nothing CONSISTENTLY)

[James]

You can't question Habana's try. Even if he had tried to ground it too soon only for it to spill out, it was never in doubt. That's just clutching at straws.

The rules for advantage depend on whether it is a knock-on advantage or a penalty advantage. If it is a knock-on advantage, the advantage is over as soon as the team uses clean ball from a ruck that is not significantly behind where the infringement occurred or the team gains territorial advantage without a ruck forming. Penalty advantages usually last until a team gains significant territorial advantage. If advantage hasn't been reached after a couple of phases the penalty can be awarded or, if the phases were constructive, the advantage is over.

I can't remember what type of advantage it was for Sheehan, but if it was knock-on advantage, and he took clean ball and used it (the kick), that would be an end to the advantage. If a ruck hadn't formed and the ball Sheehan kicked wasn't clean there are good grounds for it to be called back to a scrum.

[Sprogrugby]

I think James has pretty much answered that - Ecky is going to have to be quicker off the mark...Alas the King is dead, Long live the King !

Re scrum advantage, it isn't as black and white as 'if a ruck has occured' but the question is if they have received ball and been able to use it (generally 1-2 unhindered passes at the original gain line). Just another level of interpretation that makes this game rugby and helps infuriate bloggers worldwide.

Re penalty advantage, a big topic of discussion is whether a team playing under penalty advantage taking a drop goal attempt 'uses up their advantage'. Some consider that having two bites of a cherry if they miss and then get a penalty shot as well

[Tonkar]

[QUOTE=James;310626]You can't question Habana's try. Even if he had tried to ground it too soon only for it to spill out, it was never in doubt. That's just clutching at straws.

Sorry James disagree
The wording from the rule book is the Player scoring must have control of the ball and apply downward pressure on it with his, hers or its Hand... The replay showed Haban ( being the IT ) did in no way have control of the ball when crossing the line to apply downward pressure with Its Hand..
Regardless weather the ref was there or not the ruling in the laws of rugby stand no clutching at straws.... if the Ref or arssitances are not in a position to see the grounding he should always go upstairs..

[Ecky]

Silly me for going to be before midnight and waking up a bit after 8 and having a leisurely breakfast before logging on to TWF.

That'll learn me, won't it?

Carry on chaps!

[hertryk]

I've seen tries not awarded in the past for less! No downward pressure past the line no try! Remember that "try" England wasnt awarded where the guy did an elaborate try dive and drpped it in the process! No try! Johnston was rope able!

[AndyS]

If what James meant was that you can't blame the ref for assuming that Habana wouldn't have cocked it up cold, I'd agree. I doubt there were many at the ground questioned it before the replay, for the same reason. But it does abd did happen, and there perhaps should be some sort of protocol for the refs (if there isn't already). If he had been standing right over it and hadn't seen the grounding, he'd've checked even if it looked OK.

[welshrugbyfan]

The rules for advantage depend on whether it is a knock-on advantage or a penalty advantage.

Never heard that before???

Advantage is advantage, the referee is sole judge of whether or not a team has gained an advantage. The referee has wide discretion when making decisions.

Advantage can be either territorial or tactical.

Territorial advantage means a gain in ground.

Tactical advantage means freedom for the non-offending team to play the ball as they wish.

[slomo]

You can't question Habana's try. Even if he had tried to ground it too soon only for it to spill out, it was never in doubt. That's just clutching at straws.

ok, i guess we put it down to lazy refereeing!!...

[zed]

Can the captain of the team that has been scored against, request the video ref? I seem to remember England doing it in the 6N.