How can Force assist to develop WA rubgy

[sittingbison]

I am an outsider to the local rugby scene, I have zero affiliations. In the club threads there is banter between clubs (which is good) and some outright vitriol (not sure if this is so good). What concerns me is an apparent disconnect between the Force (RugbyWA if you like) and every other aspect of rugby in WA. I acknowledge I could be completely wrong in my concerns.

What I would like to see as part of the relaunch is the Force become inclusive with the clubs, and all of them participate in fertilizing grassroot participation, so there is a clear avenue from juniors right up to the professional Force (and thus into the Wallabies).

I know we have to break out of the private school mentality, in the interim however I would like to see the Force provide coaching services to the PSA schools, and the Force players be active at school level. They should "work" a forty hour week, I don't believe thy can be training all that time. The Force should also pay for a rugby scholarship Year 10 to 12 at each of the PSA schools, to include saffers kiwis argies and PIs. Take advantage of our excellent education system, sound economy, relaxed lifestyle, and a society (relatively) free of intolerance and hate. Get eight 15yo each year, start a production line. Within three years 24 teenagers with potential, 8 per year popping out the end.

Same with the clubs. I would like the Force and the clubs to work in unison rather than against each other. With a clear structure laid out. Again get the Force pros turning up at all the clubs, involving with the kids. Get the Force professional coaching team to liaise with and teach the club coaches. Further from now on all the Force players should relinquish ties to Sydney and Brisbane clubs. Once they join the Force, they play their club rugby here. No exceptions. If they dont want to do this, don't sign them. Part of a "no dickheads, pensioners or mercenaries" policy.

And I would like the Force to institute a minimum number of WA players recruited each year, maybe three into the EPS and one into the playing squad. Without fail. No more pussy footing around, the Force MUST start grabbing locals.

Simply put, this state needs everyone involved in rugby from juniors to professional to work together.

OK I am retiring to the fire proof bunker, flame on. Genuine thought out comments would be appreciated. Maybe we can get some impact at HQ.

[palitu]

definately need a spot or two in the EPS for locals.

They did say somewhere that the locals will be coming in and out of the force set-up (training etc i guess). so there will be some development there.

[AndyS]

I think rugby as a whole has to break with the schools and transfer the responsibility back to the clubs. We should not be pouring half a million a year into schoolboy rugby, it should be going into U18 rugby. Just like cricket, the schools can by all means continue to play but the path to the top should be through club age competition, state colts and club grades and on to the professional game.

In terms of the Force specifically, I think what they should be doing is having the mandated EPS from which they can cover injuries. But under that I assume they have an extended training squad involving what remains of our academy levels. On top of that (and asuming they don't already), the most promising locals should also be included. Almost every team had to go further than the EPS last year to complete the season. If through the year we are going to sign cover players on short notice, it would be nice if we already knew who we would be, they were locally based and had already had some involvement with the team.

[Blackswan]

I think we need to recognise that the "Force" is a franchise, not the top tier of a western Australia rugby fraternity. It is the responsibility of RWA to foster rugby in western Australia. The fact that RWA is also bound up with the running of the Force franchise should not result in confusion over which of the two entities has responsibility for developing the sport in this state.

For the first few seasons, Force players were required to play club rugby in WA but this requirement was relaxed about four (?) years ago. I suspect this had a lot to do with the wishes of the players. The Sydney and Brisbane comps are a better standard than the local premier grade rugby comp and most players would want to play in the highest standard of rugby available to them. Plus of course for most it means returning home and to their home club. Again it is not the responsibility of the Force to develop Premier Grade rugby in WA. It is the responsibility of RWA and the clubs.

I have this argument repeatedly on a Friday night and whilst I can understand long term supporters of local club rugby wanting the local comp and clubs to benefit from the existance of the Force, it would be better if the focus was on what RWA should / could be doing in this regard.

[GAFFA]

I think the future of the force is one where the player base is made up of WA players but it doesn’t happen over night and ill leave it up to better minds than mine to figure out how that can happen.

In the shorts term however I think the biggest thing that will make this dream a reality is for the Force to be successful which in turn brings young talented boys to our game and if that means brining in people from over east to make this happen than so be it.

[AndyS]

I think we need to recognise that the "Force" is a franchise, not the top tier of a western Australia rugby fraternity.

It is and, as noted, it is a franchise held by the people responsible for developing rugby in WA. I basically interpreted the question as "How can RWA utilise the significant investment in and resource represented by the Force to enhance and develop club rugby in WA?" It would be profoundly stupid to treat them as completely independent - a bit like spending top dollar on renting a place with a massive ocean view then keeping the blinds permanently closed so as not to fade the carpet.

[GAFFA]

It is and, as noted, it is a franchise held by the people responsible for developing rugby in WA. I basically interpreted the question as "How can RWA utilise the significant investment in and resource represented by the Force to enhance and develop club rugby in WA?" It would be profoundly stupid to treat them as completely independent - a bit like spending top dollar on renting a place with a massive ocean view then keeping the blinds permanently closed so as not to fade the carpet.

I think the Tahs and NSWRU are treated separate aren’t they? That has worked really well...

[brokendown gunfighter]

It is and, as noted, it is a franchise held by the people responsible for developing rugby in WA. I basically interpreted the question as "How can RWA utilise the significant investment in and resource represented by the Force to enhance and develop club rugby in WA?" It would be profoundly stupid to treat them as completely independent - a bit like spending top dollar on renting a place with a massive ocean view then keeping the blinds permanently closed so as not to fade the carpet.

which brings us back to daylight saving

[westies man]

For the first few seasons, Force players were required to play club rugby in WA but this requirement was relaxed about four (?) years ago. I suspect this had a lot to do with the wishes of the players. The Sydney and Brisbane comps are a better standard than the local premier grade rugby comp and most players would want to play in the highest standard of rugby available to them. Plus of course for most it means returning home and to their home club. .

The two grand a game in Sydney club rugby helps and the bit about wanting to return to their home is crap .This state is their home cos rugby in this state pays their wages.Either stay and embrace local rugby or piss off can't have it all ways

[GIGS20]

And I would like the Force to institute a minimum number of WA players recruited each year, maybe three into the EPS and one into the playing squad. Without fail. No more pussy footing around, the Force MUST start grabbing locals.

This is my only real point of contention with your post Bison.

I've long said that "affirmative Action" style responses to situations like this are ineffective and only serve to weaken the whole without providing additional pathways.

What you're suggesting is exactly the same as the quota system applied to the Springboks (are they still doing that?) As you will see, I was against that one as well and I'm far less passionate about SARugby than the Force.

The ONLY effective way to increase the local player stocks into the main Force team is to commit the resources to local talent until they meet the standard, then select them on merit. That essentially means spending money on promotion, coaching, development, playing tours, and the whole box and dice for WA club level players. Get them coached by the best, Conditioned by the best and playing against the best until they meet the expected standard.

The quota for local players in the force side should be an indicator, not a policy.

2c from GIGS

[AndyS]

Not sure it is the only way Gigs. One idea I stuck out there a while ago was that we refuse to sign a contract longer than one year unless they are locally based (local = living here and playing for a local club). Also, unless they are locally based, no place in team leadership. We have to make this a WA team, not a team located in WA. I don't think we need the players to have been born and bred here, but they have to think of themselves as local and help develop local talent. What we want is a core group of players that want to be here, are here by choice rather than simply holding down a job, help make the place better for rugby and have some skin in the game. Genuinely local lads would be great, but to my mind no more valuable than blokes like Spanner and Hodgo.

[sittingbison]

yup thought long and hard about the affirmative action, because on principle I abhor it. I agree with AndyS, the requirement is to make it a WA team, not a team in WA. And anybody is welcome, don't care a hoot where they come from as long as they want to be here and contribute. I also agree with gaffa that success breeds success, so although the long term goal is local we have to recruit. However under no circumstances should we employ mercenaries, pensioners or dickheads.

I think the Force vs all other rugby should NOT be separate entities. It needs to be a symbiotic relationship. Force can provide expertise, resources, experience (and celebrity), the clubs eventually supply players. I agree they need to invest in and support the grassroots at both the club junior level like AndyS says, but also at the PSA level which can be used to attract young players with real potential from overseas with the scholarships. This is different from the private school mentality over east, it is using a valuable resource to attract talent. Basically every arrow in the quiver needs to be utilised.

I really think it is necessary for the Force players to play club rugby here. We have to improve the standard of club scene here, the local players need to play against professionals, not let that valuable resource flee back to Sydney or wherever to enrich that scene. Joining the Force is a commitment to growing rugby in this state - if they don't want to do that, if club rugby is that important to them, let them stay where they are.

[.X.]

Bison - I think you have some very good points.

But I think the best you can do to help bring about the change is to get involved with a club.

Find out what is the best fit club to you. Closest to home, on the way home from work or closest to your favourite pub. Find the oldest and biggest guy standing on the sidelines and introduce yourself.

For more pointers on joining a club - I have to recommend you Read Fulvio's Articles on the subject. Part one can be found here

[Blackswan]

The two grand a game in Sydney club rugby helps and the bit about wanting to return to their home is crap .This state is their home cos rugby in this state pays their wages.Either stay and embrace local rugby or piss off can't have it all ways

This point of view is what is inhibiting wetsern Australia rugby from developing.

[Alison]

which brings us back to daylight saving