Rugby's third tier in the pipeline, based on nine universities

[TOCC]

For those criticising the ARU over this, this is a RUPA proposal, not a ARU one....

[brokendown gunfighter]

I suppose you could criticise the ARU for a failure to come up with a viable comp,necessatating a plan by RUPA

[.X.]

For over 2 years now I have been involved with a Rugby Club that is part of the Sydney Suburban Rugby Competition. This Club has been part of competitive Rugby in Sydney for over 120 years. The Club was originally part of the Hawkesbury Agricultural College but is now the part of the University of Western Sydney (Hawkesbury Campus). Whilst we are currently competing in the Third Division of Suburban Rugby. 4 Levels under the Shute Shield. We have played at the Division one level and won the Competition at that level, our former players include former Wallabies and Waratahs and even a Former Western Force Legend - Scott Staniforth.

With this RUPA Concept I am potentially part of a Club that could be competing in the new Third Tier Competition and I gotta admit I am a little bit excited about that.

And then my brain kicks in and I see the potential problems.

First up players. Last Season we had 110 players competing in 4 Grades. Of that 40 would be aged 23 or under. 30 are University students. I hope that our promotion to this third tier competition would encourage more players to our club as I don't believe we currently have any players capable or suitable for this level of competition.

University Support. At this point in time our support by the University is improving. In previous years it has been close to non-existent. Again I would imagine this would improve with this promotion. Support from the student medical faculty or students is currently zero.

Money. At the moment we receive sponsorship from businesses in the local community. As well as money raised from Our own Canteen and Bar from home games. This covers the costs of Jerseys and equipment and the payment of players. To be apart of this competition our costs particularly travel and accommodation are going to be huge. I would imagine that we would need over $100,000 per season for this squad alone.

On a Side Issue.

On the 2nd March 2013 the University of Western Sydney (Hawkesbury Campus) will be hosting the Laffan Cup once again. 12 University's from Across the East Coast of Australia will be competing over a space of one day for the Laffan Cup in 15-a-Side cometition. I guess there is a chance we may have some more "official spectators this year

[travelling_gerry]

Former rugby boss says third tier crucial for code

by: WAYNE SMITH
From:The Australian
January 28, 201312:00AM

FORMER Australian Rugby Union boss Gary Flowers says it was no longer a question of whether the game could afford a third-tier competition, but rather that the point had been reached where it can't afford not to have one.

In 2007, Flowers achieved what many critics considered impossible when he marshalled sufficient consensus from the game's powerbrokers to allow the establishment of a third tier of semi-professional rugby, the Australian Rugby Championship, as a stepping stone between club football and Super Rugby and the Wallabies.

The competition was a huge success from a rugby perspective but following his departure from the ARU, vested interests had it dismantled.

The rationale for terminating it after one season -- that its costs had blown out horrendously -- was not invalid, especially following the onset of the global financial crisis, but it failed to take into account the determination of all involved in it to dramatically scale back on costs in its second season.

Even the Rugby Union Players Association signalled it was prepared to see player payments scaled back to ensure its survival.

Flowers has always maintained a discreet silence about the dismantling of what was arguably his greatest contribution to the game, made all the more remarkable by the fact that in the 3 1/2 years he was CEO, the ARU turbulently went through four chairmen and 23 board members.

But with the ARU under new management, with Michael Hawker emerging as a strong chairman and Bill Pulver about to start work this week as CEO, Flowers yesterday re-entered the public arena to urge the organisation to re-establish the third tier.

"It's something Australian rugby can't afford not to have," Flowers said.

"It has to find a way to make it work. Happily, there seems to be a strong groundswell of belief that the time has arrived again.

"The stats we had when I was at the ARU showed that at a provincial and international level, the game was on a downhill slide and that's continued. The performance of the individual Super Rugby teams is the responsibility of the individual franchises but collectively the performance of Australia in Super Rugby is the responsibility of the ARU. And when you have three teams in the bottom five ( last year the Waratahs placed 11th, the Melbourne Rebels 13th and the Western Force 14th in the 15-team competition), it says something needs to be done."

Flowers was guardedly supportive of the RUPA plan for a nine-team universities-based under-23 competition. "Provided it gets over the sticking point of some of the present university clubs becoming the focal point, it could work," he said.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spor...-1226563061373

[wholetruth]

Reserves plan to help Force players
Nick Taylor, The West Australian

For those worried about a super UWA club, this clears it up.

A new Western Force "reserves" side would be set up under a proposed and much needed third-tier Australian rugby competition.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/spo...force-players/

[unipirate]

Well it seems the ARU does realise they need this level of competition and our rugby stocks will diminish if we do not create this system sooner rather than later.

beige, I feel has a point that there needs to be thorough research done before a third tier system is put in place. This being said I think something needs to be set up in the interim while this research is being put in place.

Something like a national club championship two-tier competition seems like a great idea. I feel this would have to be two tier so as to include competitions from other rugby competitions that don't include Super franchises. I am not sure about all rugby competitions around this country but I would think most start about February-March every year, with some running a little longer than others. This way the second tier would most likely be from competitions that end early and the first tier would be the longer running competitions. Just an idea.

This thread has hit upon some great points for and against the RUPA idea, but the underlining issue is we need the third tier competition and sooner rather than later. I am pretty sure everyone agrees with this statement.

Does anyone know if RugbyWA has a stance on the proposal put forward by RUPA or any ideas for a third team system?

wholetruth your timing couldn't be any better! Cheers

[shasta]

A new Western Force "reserves" side would be set up under a proposed and much needed third-tier Australian rugby competition.

Hallelujah!

Now for all the rest, particularly U Sydney to be similarly restricted.

[Sheikh]

Why does it have to be U23s? I'm all for giving young players more opportunity, but why cap the age limit of this competition?

The Currie Cup and ITM Cup don't do this. By the time a player is 23, you can probably tell whether a back will make it, but forwards, and especially front-rowers, tend to take longer to develop properly (of the Force props, only Manu would make it into an U23 team).

What happens to a good 24 year old player who didn't quite make it onto one of the Super Rugby squads or EPSs? I can see their options as: stepping down to state level, moving abroad, or giving up rugby totally. Can't see the point of the age cap.

[travelling_gerry]

Maybe they can specify Art Students and have them until they are 65?

[unipirate]

As far as the age cap goes I feel there does need to be one but that maybe 23 is too low. Maybe 26 would be a better limit, or 25 with 5 players up to 27 in a 35 man squad.

If and when this competition is set up it should be used for development of young talent and for this there would need to be an age limit.

If it is some way aligned with an educational institute, then maybe at least the players that don't make it to the higher levels can have a career doing something else.

Kind of the best of both worlds really in that respect.

All great ideas, keep them coming!
Posted via Mobile Device

[Stone Cold]

Having universities as the vehicle will only serve to alienate millions of potential fans as well as the inherent political in-fighting it will start.

Revise that which was dismantled prematurely. Bring back the ARC in all its glory!

[Hansie]

I need to work out how any competition gets stronger when you "grow it " from the top down.

Geez, our 4th, 5th , 6th and 7th tier comps need fixing???

Currie Cup was born from a robust club competition in each province from which a Provincial team was selected that the competed for the Currie Cup. The Boks were ostensibly selected from this comp.

Super rugby came along and snuck in between the Provinces and Boks. Some provinces were fortunate enough for their provincial team to become an S15 Club, other provinces not so fortunate remained playing Currie Cup as their highest level.

I imagine a similar thing happened in N.Z. The common thread is that you had the development of Currie Cup and ITM cup all being shoved from the bottom up.

The Sydney Comp, Brisbane comp, Perth Comp. and so on are not even operating successfulyy in their own right yet.

Each Super Franchise has an academy, where boys spend their lives in gyms, or on paddocks running, dodging and being tested. They play no games.

Everyone knows that a player learns more, playing a single match, than multiple training sessions.

Put some money into grass roots, allowing clubs like Rocky, Soaks, etc to hire fulltime professional coaches and administrators as well as paying their players a small stipend. This may cost $200K plus - but the extra resources will then allow the professional adminsitrators to go out and generate more sponsorship money for their club.

So, amongst the 11 top senior clubs in Perth, you're looking at $2.2 mil. I bet you won't be too far off this figure to build another Pro team for this 3rd tier??? Across the 5 States you're looking at $11.0 mil plus whatever each club can raise to match it and grow.

Grow the numbers in the game, watch the standard of Rugby improve at Grass roots and from these State teams select your Super 15 players and so on.

Anyway - that's my little soapbox effort out of the way.

[unipirate]

We all need to understand that a third tier system was more easily put together in RSA and NZ because of the size of their countries. Logistics for such competitions alone was a lot easier to fund.

This great bronzed land we doesn't have that privilege. Our vast distances between states is a major burden when it comes to setting up such a competition. That being said it is not as if it cannot be done, it would just require more funds.

Now Hanse raises good points that funding the lower grassroots more would also help to increase the rugby talent pool in Australia. There is no arguing this at all.

This, however, I feel is not enough. We need a competition between local club and Super Rugby. There are players on the cusp of Super Rugby but can't get the good competition to push them that little bit extra and give them more hardened experience.

The more and more I think about it, a tie in with universities is not the answer for this country. I like the idea of maybe a two tiered national club championship, as well as a two tiered state/territory championship. The state/territory competition could be an extension of the defunct championship between WA, SA, Qld Country, NSW Country and Victoria.

After Hanse's comments it would seem that a two pronged attack is required.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Ham105]

I like the university proposal but also agree that it's not the only answer. Let it go ahead as it's a good idea for young super-squad and academy players but it can only be part of the answer so long as it's strictly varsity and U23.

There was a bit of info tucked away at the end of Wayne Smith's article quoted in the OP...

... recommending that a formal six-week Australian Club Championship immediately follow the National Universities competition. The clubs initially would compete within their own cities before two clubs from Sydney, Brisbane and Canberra would head to the knockout stage to be joined from the top club from Melbourne and Perth.

This is almost a mini ARC. It's not perfectly formed, but it could be built into the strong, semi-pro, 3rd tier competition we need.

• The initial proposal is for a 6 week championship. It's short, but after a few seasons the dates could be moved back to allow 8 weeks or 10 weeks or more. Then we'd be getting closer to a proper 3rd-tier comp.

• The 8 teams is probably about right to start. Playoffs involving the top clubs from each city is also okay initially, but it will lead to some problems. Either one or two clubs in each city will buy the best players over time and dominate the rest; Or the talent will be spread across the city and good players will miss out on the Top-8 comp, weakening it.
  
  ... The ways around this would be to either have rep side sides chosen from each city comp (like in the old amateur days), or to develop a few elite club teams sitting above which contract players, without age restrictions, from local and varsity comps to play in the national Top-8.

• Either way, if the National Championship expands from 6 weeks to 10+ weeks (reducing the varsity season if necessary), then the best players will concentrate more on the elite comp and will probably only play part of the season with their local clubs. This should mean the local comps are less distorted by rich clubs with more elite players.

I have left out the logistics of money and TV, etc, but the most important thing is to get started. Start modestly and affordably and grow. Then we will have the 3rd tier back.

[travelling_gerry]

NEW Australian Rugby Union chief executive Bill Pulver will push for a Super Rugby reserve grade third tier competition that would be played as curtain-raisers before the main games.

Pulver's idea for a "Super B'' tournament involving the fringe players of Australia's five franchises.

"I'm talking to the Super franchises about the potential to have a Super B competition, where we take the young potential of the country and put it into a Super B competition,'' Pulver told The Daily Telegraph at yesterday's Super Rugby 2013 season launch in Melbourne.

"Phase one would be a five-team comp that would run curtain-raiser games to Super 15 games, potentially adding to the value proposition to get people to games.


"We've got to find a model that is economically manageable, I'm determined to do that.

"That's why one of the options I'm really looking hard at is a program within the Super Rugby franchises themselves.

"Because they actually have themselves much of the infrastructure to leverage this, so I would like to leverage that even further.''

This idea could potentially save the ARU millions in start-up costs for administration, training facilities and marketing.

Pulver blamed the lack of a national third-tier system as a major reason why Australia has won just three Super Rugby titles in 17 years.

Previously the ARU experimented with the eight-team Australian Rugby Championship in 2007 but that tournament was quashed by Pulver's predecessor John O'Neill after just one season, written off as too costly to sustain.

But Pulver said Australian rugby could not hope to consistently compete with the All Blacks and Springboks without a robust tournament sandwiching club and Super rugby.

"I think that is the missing link that runs interference on our Super franchises' ability to compete, because New Zealand and South Africa, they have got that third tier,'' Pulver said. "One of the major thrusts we want in Australian rugby is to create a pathway for the growth of players to help strengthen our performance at Super 15 level.

"That is the engine room of growth for elite rugby players in this country.

"If we've got a strong set of Super franchises in Australia, you're going to see the Wallabies be strong.''

The ARU board will discuss three third-tier options next week; the Super B idea, a RUPA plan to play a nine-team University-based competition, and a separate proposal by clubs.

"One terrific option was put forward by RUPA, where they've got a University-based model, another option has been put forward by the clubs where you'd have a third tier above first grade,'' Pulver said. "There's some terrific options there, I am personally extremely committed to the third tier.''


http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/rug...-1226577355305