Pindan Premier Grade Round 6

[NTT]

Oh well onto the Round 7 then. Good debate (sic) had by all.
My closing statement, I have no beef with any club or people affiliated to a club who defend their club passionately in the vein of Westie or Chertubler or Hansie or myself. Lively debate is good, it shows we care. Pot shots about 'mercenaries' (seriously it's club footy, not a Terminator movie) and how clubs recruit is BULLSHIT. I'm guilty and apologise. Every club has private sponsors or 'sugar daddies' who are free to spend their personal money however they want. If you do your research properly RM, you'd know this to be the real source of the funds and not the clubs.

Kalamunda are not a basket case. They are a club who do their best to stay competitive like any club should. We lack not sponsors, players or supporters, we lack volunteers. Same as every other club.

Round 7 : Kalamunda v Palmyra.

[RumourMonger]

NTT, it's great to see you finally admitting guilt and tending your apologies. We're making progress but it's been a slog.

Lets have the truth from now on and life will be a lot easier for you.

Who are Kalamunda's 'sugar daddies' ?

I have done my homework NTT; you should know by now that I don't ask questions unless I already know the answer. My point was that there is an underlying problem at Kalamunda re a lack of volunteers in key positions, no obvious successor to the current President and a culture of non fee paying players which is all being disguised by certain supporters throwing money at buying in players. This strategy can only last so long before the wheels will become quite wobbly. I'd say you are getting very close to one wheel falling off.

Kala has a reputation in clubland of players not paying their fees and various supporters having to chip in to cover the costs. This is a disease and buying players in for $8K or $10K per season will bite you when good Kala club players who've come up through the ranks get wind of it.

Westie and Hansie are good rugby men who work hard for the greater good. Chertubler is just a muppet.

[theforceguy]

Go Kalla kick some Pally ass ..................

[westies man]

I think every club is finding it hard to get somebody anybody to do something anything and seems to get worse every season

[chertubler]

Rm get off your soapbox all you do is dribble shit and slag off anybody who does'nt agree with you, good luck to rocky this week.

[RumourMonger]

It's called the truth Chertubler.

Deal with it.

[Hansie]

Here's a question I need some serious disussions on:

Getting subs out of Rugby Players has been a huge bugbear for the past 18 years I have been involved at Neddies. I have since learnt in the past few weeks that club finances at most other clubs are also seriously affected by these parasites that play one club off against the other.

I would like to find some method that the majority of all clubs agree to whereby RugbyWA help support clubs get subs out of their players?

Should we consider an agreed across the board subs payment?

How do we support clubs with No Pay No Play policy?

Should we ask all clubs to agree to a memorandum of understanding to honour O/S debts ?

Should we look at another level of documentation and administration to manage that players cannot transfer unless subs have been paid to club they are transferring from?

We cannot withdraw insurance coverage - I have looked at that as it would be illegal.

Most clubs charge around the $300.00 per season subs which most players will spend in one night at a pub and we're looking at 18 matches, where all they have to do is turn up and play the game they love. The fields are marked, the refs arranges, the scores kept, changerooms kept clean, so it works out at they pay less than $20.00 per week for this amazing privilege - geez - I think Wayne Swan runs the country the way we run our comp.

I am told that if every player paid their subs, the financial pressures on most clubs would ease.

In short - I would like some ideas. If we don't try to level out the playing field with respect to finances and protecting the interests of all clubs, then our comp. will comtinue to wallow in this ether where there is no pathway, no local talent and lots more them and us accusations.

From the figures I have estimated regarding non payment of subs - there is a loss on average to each club of $8,000. Imagine if $80,000 was brought back into our comp. what we as a group could do. We could employ someone to at RugbyWa to help develop our talent, we could perhaps susbsidize some volunteers to do treasury, secretarial, groundsman, bar manager roles at our clubs. C'mon guys lets try to grow the big picture.

Work together off the field to grow our code and beat the crap out of each other on the field.

Here's the order of priority : Force - Club - Team - Individual.

Enough of me on the soapbox.

[goony]

Maybe there should be some incentives for players to pay their fees on time? Players love receiving kit, why doesn't RugbyWA use some of their sponsorship or competition money and give every player that registers before a certain date, usually registration day, some form of kit to state that they have paid their fees e.g RugbyWA Community Rugby singlets or training shirts? I see heaps of Bankwest training shirts and singlets going around, i'm sure they would like to be involved in the idea.

If the clubs received a little more help with ideas like this from those who are on the payroll at RugbyWA it would ease a bit of the pressure and go a long way in keeping players in the code

[brokendown gunfighter]

I was always under the impression that tranfers couldn't take place if subs were still owing to the previous club
is this no longer the case?

[GIGS20]

Would it work for a list of non-financial players to be maintained by RugbyWA (as the central administrative body) and a series of penalties, up to removal of the right to play, be instituted upon these players.

I would think a decent lawyer could take these players to court to seek their unpaid subs as well.

As for players who are given incentives, surely the first couple of hundred of those incentives would be subs wouldn't they? Even though this flies in the face of some professional structures (Teachers and Nurses pay registration fees, do any workplaces still require union membership?) It would make sense as a club administrator to word these offers accurately, ie We will pay your $325.00 fees and give you $4675.00 for playing the season (Handy that it adds up to $5000) rather than leaving the deal unspoken.....I would suggest not clarifying this status is a recipe for misunderstanding and division!

Perhaps the increasingly semi-professional nature of the competition needs to be codified and legistated in order to protect both clubs and players in this situation. RUPA will likely be against it because it will bring written contracts, KPIs Taxation and a whole bunch of other stuff to the table.

[Political BS]

The major problem is that Club's don't have the cohunas to stand by a "no pay no play" policy for their own club. No Club has the guts to turn around to their top players and tell them they have to pay up. Loss of players, forfeitng games etc... is far more scary for Club administrators than missing out on a $$$ of fees.
Most Prem Clubs have between two and three hundred players. Their fee revenue is between $60K and $90K. I would be very surprised if RWA has the will or the resources to take on debt collection for clubs.
4,000 reistered player x $300 = $1.2m. I suspect the level of bad debts is much greater than Hansie's estimate of $8k per club.
If all Club's adopt no pay no play then no problem.

[jt12]

I'd love to have been there hansie - I'm sure you guys will look after his Dents' Mum; she'll love being around the club and the people he loved, it'll be fantastic for her to help with coming to terms with their family's loss, cheers JT

[RugbyRef]

Why don't RugbyWA take on the registration & payments centrally?

That way all players can be guaranteed permission to play in the WA Comp from round 1 if registered by a certain date (excluding reasons why registration can't happen, previous ban etc..). If not registered then they cannot play for anyone. If they register late they have to wait until the registration is approved before they can play.

The Clubs can receive their money in two lump sums, one just after round one, for all the players that registered by the certain date, and one after the grand finals for all players after that date. This will encourage clubs to get their player registered early.

I don't know if RWA takes an amount for each player a club registers (I would assume they do) but this could be automatically deducted for the amount of players registered.

Everyone wins as you have an enforced across the board No pay No Play policy.

The only difference would then be mid season transfers, but perhaps a policy of the club you register for first gets the money and any other club you play for will be for loyalty may work.

Just trying to think outside the box.

[jono]

Why don't RugbyWA take on the registration & payments centrally?

That way all players can be guaranteed permission to play in the WA Comp from round 1 if registered by a certain date (excluding reasons why registration can't happen, previous ban etc..). If not registered then they cannot play for anyone. If they register late they have to wait until the registration is approved before they can play.

The Clubs can receive their money in two lump sums, one just after round one, for all the players that registered by the certain date, and one after the grand finals for all players after that date. This will encourage clubs to get their player registered early.

I don't know if RWA takes an amount for each player a club registers (I would assume they do) but this could be automatically deducted for the amount of players registered.

Everyone wins as you have an enforced across the board No pay No Play policy.

The only difference would then be mid season transfers, but perhaps a policy of the club you register for first gets the money and any other club you play for will be for loyalty may work.

Just trying to think outside the box.

Mid season transfers can be done by diving the fees into the season length and the balance is paid to the club the player goes to. So the player still pays his full rego as an annual. But if he moves the remaining balance goes with him. So each club only gets the rego for the time said player is playing for them.

[westies man]

The major problem is that Club's don't have the cohunas to stand by a "no pay no play" policy for their own club.

You obviously weren't at West's training tonight