National U16 Championships » Division 1 results

[pieter blackie]

National Under 16 Championship results
http://www.rugbywa.com.au/NewsEvents...5/Default.aspx

Day 1
NSW Schools 40 v Western Australia 3
Day 2
QLD White 37 v Western Australia 15
Day 3
NSW Country 22 v Western Australia 31
Day 4 Finals
Western Australia 17 v Victoria 36

[Pacman]

Time for a new head coach, someone who can bring the best out of the boys when there heads are down.
Not a coach who flogs them mentally as a beaten dog and puts them down. The man has all the coaching/technical skills in the world, but is not a leader of young men.

Mel Gibson would be a good head coach with war paint to bring the best out of the players when times are very tough.

Elwee Prinsloo, Grant Oakley, Anare Koliavu, Gus Martin, Mark Calvery all do this side of things a lot better than he does!!!

[PeterM]

Could it be that the calibre of players simply doesn't stack up compared to NSW & QLD?
This is not a dig at the lads well done on representing your state.
In all sports at all levels the finger is pointed at the coach unless you are in the inner sanctum and are privy to all that goes on how can anyone sit in judgement?

In some cases it is the players who simply aren't good enough and we have to accept that

[GAFFA]

Could it be that the calibre of players simply doesn't stack up compared to NSW & QLD?This is not a dig at the lads well done on representing your state.
In all sports at all levels the finger is pointed at the coach unless you are in the inner sanctum and are privy to all that goes on how can anyone sit in judgement?

In some cases it is the players who simply aren't good enough and we have to accept that

well they just lost top VIC 36-17

[Pacman]

Could it be that the calibre of players simply doesn't stack up compared to NSW & QLD?
This is not a dig at the lads well done on representing your state.
In all sports at all levels the finger is pointed at the coach unless you are in the inner sanctum and are privy to all that goes on how can anyone sit in judgement?

In some cases it is the players who simply aren't good enough and we have to accept that

This 'inner sanctum' is all but one man and going by results since he started too over see ALL state teams either as coach or coaching director is well below expectations. Like I said, the blokes the best trainer/skills coach we've got but lacks man management and can't inspire his players. The players are terrified of him and in my book it's hard to get a player to bleed for you if he hates you and is scared of you.

[wholetruth]

Losing to the Vic's is non-negotiable. This must be the first time we have lost to them at any age group, from the Southern State champs, the old 19s, 16s and schoolboys for many years. Something has to be done and it starts at the top.

[PeterM]

This 'inner sanctum' is all but one man and going by results since he started too over see ALL state teams either as coach or coaching director is well below expectations. Like I said, the blokes the best trainer/skills coach we've got but lacks man management and can't inspire his players. The players are terrified of him and in my book it's hard to get a player to bleed for you if he hates you and is scared of you.

Not sure about all this inspiration stuff? You are playing for your state which in and of it's self should be a big enough motivation to perform and test yourself against the best.

I am interested when you suggest that the players hate and or are scared of him is that all the age groups or just the under 16's?

[phantom]

I am interested when you suggest that the players hate and or are scared of him is that all the age groups or just the under 16's?

Not just players but coaches and parents as well. Wrong man for the job ....

there are at least 4 boys that should have been in the team missed out due to personality clashes with him
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[PeterM]

Phantom please expand on this more so the coaches don't get on with him that seems strange when they are asked to get the best out of a group of players.

For me not really an issue if some of the parents have an issue with a coach because they are mainly looking at it in relation to how it does or doesn't impact upon their child.

Do you know the names of the four boys who should have played but didn't due to the personality 'clashes'

[Delphy]

I have just got back from Sydney where I watched all of WA's matches and have read this thread with interest.

My thoughts are as follows.

The major problem we have in our juniors is lack of depth. Put simply, our boys just don't get the week in, week out intense rugby that the heartland states get. Even practice games against u18 teams have limitations as preparation for the speed and intensity you see from the leading contenders at this level.

NSW Schoolboys

So 1st game we come up against one of the pre-tournament favourites.
The pace, skills and structure of Schoolboys was a very significant step up from anything the WA boys had experienced in their preparation. With no time to adjust, we played an uncharacteristically lacklustre and hesitant game although there was some improvement in the second half.

Queensland White

This was a much improved performance with WA taking the game up to their more fancied opponent.

We actually led for much of the game but Qld ran over the top. In the end the final score line flattered Qld and did not reflect the balance of the game.

NSW Country

This was our most complete performance of the tournament.
Played in rain and hail against a tough, no nonsense team, the superior discipline and execution of WA saw us into the 5/6 playoff game.

Victoria

For those horrified that we lost this game, the simple fact was that this year’s Victorian contingent was much stronger than in previous championships. They were competitive against the tournament champions Qld Red (until late tries blew out the score), almost got over the top of Sydney Juniors (20-15) and smashed ACT (45-5).

With WA playing to their full potential, this was going to be very challenging. I was really looking forward to a great game.

Disappointingly WA did not show their best. Letting Victoria off to a quick start, WA was not competitive for large portions of the 1st half. The energy and focus of the previous day’s victory were missing.

In the 2nd half there was improvement and WA fought back to within 10 before letting Vic off the hook again.

General Comments

The tournament was a mixed bag for WA. We played some good rugby but lacked consistency over the 4 games. Had we put up a stronger performance against Victoria I think most would have been reasonably happy. However, on balance, I think the boy’s performance could be seen as a qualified success and a great learning experience.

Coaching

As to the comments about coaching, everyone has different views on the advantages and disadvantages of different coaching styles.

There is no doubt that Dwayne Nestor is a direct and intense coach. However intensity is no bad thing at this competitive level. Further, not only is Dwayne a very good skills coach, he has assembled a team including Arno Visser and Grant Oakley who provide a nice balance in styles.

As a team, these guys have put in a huge effort to get these boys ready for Sydney. I think most people who watched from 1st session to last practice match would agree that the development of team was impressive.

What would really help the development of local talent is regular exposure to high level/high intensity rugby. Hopefully the Junior Gold Cup will provide precisely that.

[westies man]

Nice indepth analysis Delphi but how would this work.This season's 16's are obviously all eligible to play 17's next season and how about keeping the team together and playing them in Under 19's comp as a stand alone team under the guise of a state development side.
Players would then have to perform each week or make way for those that can cut it.
They would be available for say 2 season's and then head back to their previous clubs and should be ready for premier grade.
Individual clubs would have to suck it up for 2 seasons but would then reap the benefits.
Not too sure how it could all work and keep everyone happy but at least it's another option
Same could be done with the states best 14's so that when they get to the national 16's they would have to be better prepared for the step up

[GIGS20]

Nice indepth analysis Delphi but how would this work.This season's 16's are obviously all eligible to play 17's next season and how about keeping the team together and playing them in Under 19's comp as a stand alone team under the guise of a state development side.
Players would then have to perform each week or make way for those that can cut it.
They would be available for say 2 season's and then head back to their previous clubs and should be ready for premier grade.
Individual clubs would have to suck it up for 2 seasons but would then reap the benefits.
Not too sure how it could all work and keep everyone happy but at least it's another option
Same could be done with the states best 14's so that when they get to the national 16's they would have to be better prepared for the step up

Sounds like a good idea Westie, but from the way most that are in the know about club land talk around here, the cynic in me wonders how it will bugger up.

I would expect some of the kids would want to change club allegiances after 2 years playing with that side even if it is simply to keep playing with the mates they have made from the experience. The blame for this would undoubtedly be laid at the feet of the coach, or some player payment from a. Western suburb club or something else.

Or possibly the 2 years difference in age will see a high number of injuries since the development at that time of a boys life is pretty huge.

Or the team will be a success and be summarily disbanded (probably halfway through a season) stuffing up the draw and all because some short sighted club president is too precious about his 19s chances of winning a title

Or the team will be unsuccessful and the coach will be sacked in disgrace

Or any one of a million other situations, where the clubs might choose to cause an uproar and a knee jerk reaction from RugbyWA will kill off what might be a very promising idea.


Before you take offense, I'm not specifically bagging you (no matter how much fun that can be) or Wests, and not even specifically WA club rugby. I think the same thing would happen in Sydney or Brisbane if something like that we're suggested. I just think there's a powerful status quo in Aussie rugby at the moment and innovation seems to be hugely resisted (often to our detriment)

[westies man]

I'm just thinking outside the square,it doesn't have to be this particular model but why would you keep doing the same things and expect the result to be any different next season.
I do agree Gigs clubs would have to remove their club hats and look at the big picture

[Pacman]

Both are on the money here, I think the compromise would be for our state development staff to tell our under 17 state team (from 2014) players and parent you have to play under 19s week in and out for your club side to be competitive against other states. Some goes for State School Boys, theyneed to be playing reserve grade Rugby at a min to mix it with NSW. The talents here in W.A without a doubt.
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[westies man]

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Or possibly the 2 years difference in age will see a high number of injuries since the development at that time of a boys life is pretty huge.

Aranmore put a team in the Fiji 7's u/18's grade on Sat and 4 of the players involved arrived back from the u/16's nationals on Friday night.They absolutely smoked all opposition and okay the standard wasn't the best but the step up in age wouldn't be a problem.They all looked very comfortable at that level