Force v Brumbies Round 17

[Tonkar]

A Question for the local rugby fanatics and a clarification on local WA players...We have a great number of local boy's coming thru theclub ranks but how many are eligable for super rugby selection ?? If you are of foreign decent and your folks are only residents not citizens are you a local or classified as a overseas development player?? If so then that limits alot of local lads does it not...Many Kiwis can't get citizenship due to rules by the goverment. I am not being negative just asking for clarification

[westies man]

3 year residency rules qualifies for rep teams

[choice]

Foley has to go, the so called forward expert has only half the pack playing consistently well. The rest are just followers.
As head Coach he is also responsible for the performance of the backs, why then does it always look like the backline are meeting for the 1st time on game day.
Good teams have selection consistency something lacking in our team this year.
Time to bring in a coach who is showing potential in the next level down, and I don't mean someone employed by the ARU.
The time is over for that Old Boys Tie Club
If he can't be found in Australia then look overseas, ITM Cup would be a good place to start. Get them before they head to Europe.

[Jeansyjive]

Foley has to go, the so called forward expert has only half the pack playing consistently well. The rest are just followers.
As head Coach he is also responsible for the performance of the backs, why then does it always look like the backline are meeting for the 1st time on game day.
Good teams have selection consistency something lacking in our team this year.
Time to bring in a coach who is showing potential in the next level down, and I don't mean someone employed by the ARU.
The time is over for that Old Boys Tie Club
If he can't be found in Australia then look overseas, ITM Cup would be a good place to start. Get them before they head to Europe.

Spot on. Even more worrying is how some of the players have regressed under Foley. Look at what he had done to Godwin. Moved him to 13 back to 12, he looks like has lost his confidence and kicks it far more then he ever has. Its not helping him being part of a dysfunctional kick first backline either. Godwin is a good player just needs a good coach to get him playing back how he was. Although I thought Zack Holmes played well on the weekend. With some good attack coaching and plays I think Holmes could be a good 10 for us.

Even in general play our attack consists of one out runners. So easy to defend, only have to commit a few players to defend this and the defensive line is already set for next one our runner. This was the same last year but our defence was so good we were able to get away with it.

The biggest thing for me is by keeping Foley, the club is saying mediocrity and playing like a rabble is acceptable. I heard Foley trying to blame short turn arounds but that is cop out, how many pre seasons has he had with this team now?

[Ecky]

So:
How do we go about recruiting a quality coach?
Whom do we target?
When?

[Moono74]

That is why we have a CEO and admin at the club. They should be on top of this, it's why they are employed.

What they can't do is stand still, bury their heads in the sand and do nothing. The performance drop from last year to this year is too extreme and you can't blame short turn arounds or injuries. Foley has now completed his third year in charge of the club and we have finished 13th, 8th and 14th. His coaching record if we win the last game (thinking positive!) will be 16 wins, 1 draw and 31 loses.

I wouldn't necessarily mind if Foley stayed on if he could recognise that his game plan just isn't working and he took a complete fresh look at how the Force play, but I don't think he will do that. It's his way, his philosophy or nothing. I struggle to see where the performance gains will come next year without major recruitment.

Where do we go if we get to the end of 2017, at the end of the contract extension Foley and his assistant coaches just got and we have had 2 more seasons like this one. The club and interest in the team will literally be dead.

[todd4]

Mark Sinderberrys' reputation and future job prospects also ride on the performance of the Force. I would imagine the people at HQ would be just as concerned as the fans about where the club is going.

[choice]

So:
How do we go about recruiting a quality coach?
Whom do we target?
When?

One example would be the Coach of the Tasman Makos, looks like he is being overlooked for Super 15 in NZ. Plenty of Nelson boys in Perth so players he brought with him wouldn't be lonely.

[MI5_Dog]

Foley would do well as a director of coaching
he's good with man management (or so it seems) and high level stuff like bringing in more local talent
He can look after all aspects of coaching such as improving local coaching, the NRC coaches, the development academy etc.
but we should have someone else looking the super 15 team specifically.
Why not have the best of both worlds and put Foley in a position where his assets will be used to their full potential and his deficits won't matter.

[GIGS20]

OK, How about this for a scenario........tell me if it holds water.

Foley is the WA coach because he's the best of a limited pool of options (maybe he's the only one who said yes, maybe all the others are even worse)
He has access to a player list with some passionate talented blokes and an understory of moderate to crap journeymen for similar reasons
He picks the best team available to him every week, He gives them the best game plan he can, they execute it as far as their meager skills allow.

When a player doesn't follow the plan for whatever reason he considers dropping them, but doesn't have anybody who is even close to their standard, so he's forced to keep them.

He needs to plug gaping holes in the team so tries some innovation (like moving Kyle to 13) it doesn't work, but there's nobody at 134 so he sticks with it for quite a while in the hope something develops.

Does it look any different to what we had this year?
If not, does that mean changing the coach will change anything?
Does Foley go out in the media and mention his poor player list, his inability to compete in the basic skill areas of the game because the players aren't capable or the fact that nobody in the organisation has any clue how to run a backline?

Unfortunately, without the ability to spend oooodles of the moolah, we won't get anybody of quality to come here and coach them, they don't look like a quality outfit that is poorly coached, it looks like the entire organisation is out of it's depth.

I think we're stuck with it, will need to make the most of it and slowly dig our way out of this hole, I'm just waiting to see whether their strategy has any merit.

[Moono74]

^^
If that's the case then spend the entire off season bringing player skills up to the mark. It's not like Foley is in year 1, this is year 3 and the Force will be going into year 11 as a Super Rugby franchise having made very little impact on the competition.

[Buddha Handy]

What they can't do is stand still, bury their heads in the sand and do nothing.

This is the problem. Whilst we have been debating this the Reds have already signed up John Connolly, Brad Thorn and talk of Michael O'Connor. These guys might not be right for us but just an example of how we always seem to move too late.

Same with player recruitment. The rebels got Shipperley, Crawford and Harris we got Scott, Yamada and Nikora.

[GIGS20]

Agree with both points in the post above, however who is in the drawer waiting for the ARU to sign off (we all know that'll take six months)

If there's a great pile of nothing I know my confidence will wane very rapidly!

[agrugger]

Gigs - while I agree that our talent pool on the squad is not the best, I attribute most of their poor play to his game plan. Kicking for territory in hopes of capitalising on a mistake by the opposition should not be your main plan. The players have shown glimpses of good rugby (e.g. last 10 mins of Friday), so they have it in them. They just need to be put into a position to succeed. They are not fully blameless for lack of execution though. For example, I cannot believe how many line-outs we lost due to poor throws even (and many were uncontested). The examples of not maintaining defensive structure and allowing a gaps happened too frequently as well, and that's on the players too.

[agrugger]

Drafts in Australia will never work as well as in the States because we don't have the same development system. In the States it goes high-school->college-> then big-time at 22. In Australia it goes high-school->big time at 18. Those 3 or 4 years at college are so vital to the success of athletes in NFL, NBA etc. Without it the clubs have to get assess to players at ~14/15, then develop them physically so they can stand up to the rigours of Super 15, NRL etc immediately when they get in the main squad.

Otherwise you end up with the same situation as the AFL where clubs have to waste 3 years physically developing 18 year old kids to cope with a season, during which they are 5 times more likely to get injured than those with 3+ year experience.

This is not completely true. That is how the draft works for the NFL, but not the NBA or Baseball. Baseball drafts most of it's stars straight from high school (and NBA players only have to spend 1 year in college). The big difference is that both of those leagues have "minor leagues" that provide an outlet for the players to develop until they are ready for the big leagues. As many have said, the NRC needs to be supported as this could be that avenue. But it shouldn't be for the WF backups, it's for the 18-24's that need training and experience with good coaches.

And with all the drafts, the players don't get the choice in playing in their preferred city. If they want a chance to play, they will go to what ever team drafts them (except in very rare occasions) and play out their initial 2-4 year contract. The draft is also used to help the lesser performing clubs select/sign the best prospects and not let the top clubs hoard them. This does require a significant amount of scouting resources; MLB teams have scouts that travel the country watching high school games trying to find gems. In today's video age, it's much easier and will require less travel, but still a lot of time and energy.