Force List 2023 speculation

[jargan83]

I thought he was locked in at London Irish?

[Sheikh]

I thought he was locked in at London Irish?

It's London Irish - anything is a possibility!

[The InnFORCEr]

I thought he was locked in at London Irish?

Locked has different meaning in Ireland....

[bootsetal06]

Headed to Japan apparently.

[todd4]

Looks like Medrano is back.

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/argent...turns-20221027

[James]

Great news. Would be great to have another big lock, too, but otherwise looking much stronger as a squad.

[GIGS20]

Looks like Medrano is back.https://www.rugby.com.au/news/argent...turns-20221027

Thank god.I think last year proved Santiago isn't the strongest scrummaging pro in the comp, but any tifhthead is better than no tifhthead.

[Tazzmania]

Confirmed he is back

[GIGS20]

With the announcement of the final 2023 list, it's now time to move our speculation from 'who will we get' to 'who will line up'

now I know that there are a few injuries rolling around and I'll admit to not being 100% on everyone's status, so I'm going to give it a crack. If you know somebody's injured and I haven't recorded it, well that's the essence of discussion isn't it?

PROPS

Angus Wagner, Bo Abra, Charlie Hancock, Santiago Medrano, Tom Robertson, Siosifa Amone, Andrew Romano

I'm not aware of any long term injuries, so that makes the pick here (at least for the starters) pretty easy
Robbo and Santi get the nod from me to start, and I reckon I'd be putting Bo and Gus on the bench, however I don't really reckon there's gonna be much between the benchies and those who've missed out Those who start will need to prove that the extra experience counts for something and everybody else SHOULD have a huge opportunity over the preseason to push for a spot.

HOOKERS

Feleti Kaitu'u, Folau Fainga'a, Jack Winchester

Another position where I'm not aware of any injuries, so the question is, who starts. Wallaby regular Folau Fainga'a or long term Force first pick Feleti Kaitu'u. If you've watched Fingers play in Orange, I would think that makes the decision pretty easy, He's been arrogant and dumb, a penalty magnet and hasn't thrown well into lineout. Now Feleti isn't a noted lineout thrower himself, but he does seem to be a LITTLE more controlled in general.

I also like the message of "yeah sure you're a Wallaby and we've thrown you a lifeline at RA's request, but you earn your spot in this team and ATM, you're playing like shite"

That being said, I think Jack might struggle for game time unless somebody gets injured.


LOCKS

Ryan McCauley, Izack Rodda (injured late last year, not sure whether he's back game 1), Felix Kalapu, Jeremy Williams, Will Sankey.

Well, lock is where the hard decisions really start isn't it. Two new faces who both look pretty bloody capable supporting arguably the best second row pair in the country (assuming Izack is fit) Ryan really came into his own towards the end of last year when required to step up and Williams and Kalapu looked good in NPC/Aus A as I saw them.

If Rodda is fit, I'd have to go Rodda/McAuley with Williams on the bench (by a whisker) but if Rodda isn't fit, whether to give Williams that start of Parachute Kalapu straight into the run-on would be a tough decision.

I guess at that, the door's probably open for rankings to change through training. I don't think we need to play Rodda if he isn't 90% or better.

BACK ROWERS

Jackson Pugh, Kane Koteka, Michael Wells, Ollie Callan, Tim Anstee, Ned Slack-Smith.

Bloody hell, the further you get into this pack, the harder the decisions become don't they!

I think 7 is an easy pick, with the two candidates being Boog and Ollie I think Boog was hurt last year, but I expect him to be back, whether the experience on the park was enough for Oliie to make a challenge is something I'm on the fence about, so this decision is based entirely on Boog's condition, if he's 100% then Boog starts if not, Ollie for sure.

6 and 8 are the hard bit, Jackson has grown another leg playing in NPC and would make a great fist of #8 coming off that sort of experience (especially since I spent most of last season banging on about him being a lock and not a great option at 8, I've ordered the humble pie, but still waiting for the baker) Wells played 8 for the entirety of his time at the Rebs and, fair to say, might have been the only forward of value, and Anstee definitely deserves a start, likely at 6. Slack-Smith would also be a pretty bloody good option.

Without any depth of conviction I'm going to pick a backrow of
6 Wells, 7 Boog, 8 Jackson and put Anstee on the bench with Ollie as a backup if we decide to go 6-2

This decision was only made because I reckon Anstee will provide the biggest impact coming off the bench against tired players and Wells will be solid but maybe unspectacular. Meat n Potatoes first, then the gravy!

SCRUM HALVES

Ian Prior, Issak Fines-Leleiwasa, Henry Robertson

well, yet another who starts, who benches decision with Robertson likely to be the option for the future

Finesey is the aggressive, challenging, lightning X-factor player but, honestly, the team does better with Prior at the base of the ruck. It's inexplicable, because we've all been looking for Issak to fulfil his potential and give Stitchy a well-deserved rest, but I'm still not thinking this is the year (at least at the beginning of the year anyhoo)
in another victory for Meat n Potatoes over Gravy, Stitch to wear 9 and Finesey off the pine

INSIDE BACKS

Bayley Kuenzle, Bryce Hegarty, Grason Makara, Hamish Stewart, Reesjan Pasitoa, George Poolman, Oliver Cummins

What began as an embarrassment of riches has become a bit of a conundrum due to some telling injuries. When Reesjan's knee exploded I thought, it's OK, we can cover him with Hegarty or Stewart, whoever provides the most upside from a team aspect. Now, I hear rumours that Hegarty might have pulled up hurt from his last game for Tigers and I'm not sure whether that means we're another flyhalf down.

I don't see Bayley as a better option at 10 than 12 and I think Oz A selectors agree with me, but I haven't seen much of Hamish at 10 (been told he can do it, but don't know how well.

so

As much of a guess as this is

10 Stewart, 12 Kuenzle, 13 Makara

If Hegarty's fit I think we might have to put him in because I reckon Grayson would be better on the bench than anything else we've got, unless there's an unknown option in the outside backs (has anybody heard of Tiatia playing closer to the action than wing?

OUTSIDE BACKS

Chase Tiatia, Daniel Ala, Jake Strachan, Manasa Mataele, Toni Pulu, Reece Tapine, Rupeni Mataele

My god there's some attacking threat in that bunch. It's a big statement to think that Manasa might be our steady option in the back 3 with both Toni and Chase being massive x-factor options and Jake, who was doing a fantastic job for us in fullback last year.

That makes this a really difficult pick. I mean brain says Chase is better than Jake, but it also says that Toni has carried niggles in his legs pretty much the entire time he's played for us. I think, and yes I'm on the fence about this one, but I'd go with
11 Mataele, 14 Pulu, 15 Tiatia and definitely find room for Strachan on the bench.

I reckon Jake is at least somewhat capable of being a bit of an allrounder and might be a bit like Reece Hodge (but able to actually run) if allowed to develop that way.

It's certainly the way I'd play it while we're short on 10s anyway.

so, that's it, the GIGS XXIII therefore becomes
1 Robbo
2 Feleti
3 Santi
4 Ryan
5 Rodda
6 Wells
7 Boog
8 Jackson
9 Stitch
10 Hamish
11 Manasa
12 Bayley
13 Makara
14 Pulu
15 Tiatia

16 Angus
17 Fingers
18 Bo
19 Williams
20 Anstee
21 Finesey (Or slot Ollie into here for a 6/2 and Finesey becomes 22 rather than George)
22 Poolman
23 Strachan

Some rocks, some diamonds, let's hope the injury gods are kind with our options at 10 aye!

[andrewg]

Some insights into a younger Sam Spinks after entering the professional program at Wasps.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=249123834065523

And on being promoted into the main squad to replace Malakai Fekitoa. - just over a year ago.

He obviously came into consideration after Wasps went into Administration only a month ago.
(This made all staff and players redundant/available).

[shasta]

So that makes 2 premiership clubs in the financial do-do in the last little while. I wonder if it's the only 2. Could an overhaul of NH finances in general level the player market a little with respect to Super Rugby? That would be just dandy.

[tjs10]

So that makes 2 premiership clubs in the financial do-do in the last little while. I wonder if it's the only 2. Could an overhaul of NH finances in general level the player market a little with respect to Super Rugby? That would be just dandy.

These two clubs were (for different reasons) put in this position following covid.

Wasps had massively over-stretched themselves financially through preferential loans a few years back, and were unable to repay those loans when they fell due, following covid losses.

Worcester's owners apparently mis-managed the club & asset-stripped it before liquidating the remainder of the club.

I expect that there are other English clubs who are stretched financially (though the media-quoted tax debts are massively overstated & due to journalists not being able to read financial statements but still wanting to create a story) however they are generally backed by high-net-worth individuals who are happy to bankroll the club, within reason.

The European salary market is driven up by the French clubs more than anything.

Also, until Super Rugby creates more revenue opportunities for itself (most likely through more matches), it will never be able to pay the same as the NH clubs. Fans, sponsors & broadcasters won't pay NH prices for the SH number of games per season, meaning less money in the system to pay players.

[shasta]

Thanks for the detail. Still like I said; "a little". Every little bit helps.

[andrewg]

So that makes 2 premiership clubs in the financial do-do in the last little while. I wonder if it's the only 2. Could an overhaul of NH finances in general level the player market a little with respect to Super Rugby? That would be just dandy.

We can't afford to be too smug.
As I understand it there are only 2 Aussie SR franchises in the black and RAu had to rely upon bridging finance from World Rugby against expected earning from the RWC planned in Australia.

[shasta]

We can't afford to be too smug.