Western Force V Brumbies 20/05/2023

[WFDom]

Though there is starting to be recognition of the disadvantage we operate under all the time, with some suggesting last night might represent what a contest on a level playing field would look like.

Absolutely it should! They had 5 Wallabies in the 23. We had 2.

We will always get the shitty end of the stick. It will make the next few years of burgeoning success so much sweeter!

[WFDom]

I would say its more key fowards either returning from injury or returning back to the force. You can see our back row is a lot better balanced then before with RWB (a physical ball carrier) and Tizzano (a proper fetcher) and you can see the class Folau adds at hooker. Not to take anything from Max's performance though.

Yeah absolutely Volvo. We're been very proactive with our mid season recruitment. Tizzano must be nearly leading the team in tackles after only a handful of games. We'll certainly miss Faing'a next year. That's definitely a position we need to bolster.

I was suggesting more of what Burey's added since he slotted in. He certainly seems to be the best fit at 10 for Cron's gameplan. He has a very assured maturity for someone that inexperienced at this level. 10-12-13 combination is reaping rewards. His place kicking at 87% in his first 3 games in Super rugby is also very impressive.

Along with slow starts, poor discipline, and the dumb shit. Pens & cons have been problematic this year. He's definitely cleared that issue up.

If JOC or Donaldson (probably) don't wanna be here. Then lets go rogue and do it our way

[Burgs]

We'll certainly miss Faing'a next year. That's definitely a position we need to bolster.

If we are keeping Horton (?) I don't think we are losing that much, he is a star of the (near) future.

[palitu]

It was an absolute pleasure to watch! The commentators talking about the missing players got on my nerves. We had a string of injuries to many key positions, which is similar, but with less prep time, to what these guys had to work with.

Great game by many players this week.
Tizzano is scary.
Burey played well with good distribution and vision.
Scrum was solid. Our props worked really well, and the subs never looked out of place.
Pulu looks bloody good (need to keep him on the park!).
The midfield was solid, and there did not seems to be any miscommunications or passes put down.
Isi was immense when he came on.
Prior slowed down our attack, he looked like there was a heap of poor comms out there. is this just the lack of game time from him?
Discipline was soo much better, and our attacking pressure forced them into offending, getting us the Yellow
POINTS OFF THE YELLOW! it was good to see us convert the yellow card into points. i think there were two tries during the ten minutes.

Would you bring rodda in? who would get sat down?

[Tazzmania]

Christy Doran’s Australian Super Rugby team of the week via The Roar

Te Tera Faulkner, Folau Fainga’a, Harry Johnson-Holmes, Darcy Swain, Jeremy Williams, Will Harris, Michael Hooper, Rahboni Vosayaco, Issak Fines-Leleiwasa, Max Burey, Mark Nawaqanitawase, Hamish Stewart, Sam Spink, Lachie Anderson, Max Jorgensen.

[GIGS20]

Some great discussion points there Palitu, I'm gonna have a crack at the stuff I want to comment on, for no reason other than my preferences.

It was an absolute pleasure to watch! The commentators talking about the missing players got on my nerves. We had a string of injuries to many key positions, which is similar, but with less prep time, to what these guys had to work with.

As much as the team wants to play it down, it certainly was a factor. The Brumbies rested 8 Wallabies, and most of those are undisputedly the best in their position in the country. A far better response would be that the vaunted Brumby "system" which seems able to produce players of high quality to slot into position with the absence of one or two isn't everything it's cracked up to be, they still rely on player quality to generate outcomes.

I'd have to say that the decision by the Brumbies to rest their Wallabies in two games, rather than drip feed it through the year wasn't a bad decision in November of last year, they clearly thought their second string was better than our starting 15 and at the time I would be forced to agree. Fast forward a few months, and some Simon Cron magic, along with great mid-season recruitment to cover injuries with players who seem to be doing better than those who are injured might have, we made the decision into a bad one FOR THIS GAME. Let's not forget though, that all those games with all their Wallabies on the field got them as high as second on the table and they're still 3rd with that loss. Taken as an overall strategy they might consider that to be OK, and it'd be hard to argue since all other Aussie teams are fighting it out for the last couple of spots in finals.

Tizzano is scary.

Carlo is exactly who we needed to replace Boog Koteka, and I hope that we begin to see Ollie Callan getting minutes off the bench to regain his confidence after a tough start to the season. Ollie is the future and Carlo is Mr Right Now!

Scrum was solid. Our props worked really well, and the subs never looked out of place.

Yeah, I think we're a lot better served than we give ourselves credit for here. Marley and Sifa are both SUPERRRR young and doing fantastic work off the bench. I'm sure the only thing that's getting in the way of them starting is experience and possibly the kind of small percentage gains front rowers make between 20 ad 28 that finishes the process.

Do we need either Robbo or Santi on deck by Friday ABSOLUTELY, would both be better YES but can we consider Sifa and Marley to be our long term front row options for sure.

Pulu looks bloody good (need to keep him on the park!).

I've always thought that Toni has been our most damaging X-factor balrunner, but he's also suffered quite a bit from fragility. I think his current role of coming in for 30-odd minutes against tired defenses and setting the place on fire is working well to keep him from overworking himself but gets enough production out of him to make it worthwhile. Long may it continue.

Prior slowed down our attack, he looked like there was a heap of poor comms out there. is this just the lack of game time from him?

I have gone back and forth with Stitch over the years, there was a time that I thought his day was done, he did a fantastic job of making me eat my words. Then this season, he got a bunch of opportunities and didn't really make much of them. Finsey, seemed to gain the ascendency just a little and then Simmo stepped up and we saw night and day what Prior should be (and to be fair has been before) game management, crisp passing to width, making those around him look better. Prior (IMHO) has lost that battle now and is only getting selected because Simmo isn't available. With Nic White coming next year, I fear Ian's days are numbered and he'll be relegated to an injury cover role.

Would you bring rodda in? who would get sat down?

100% I would.

The bench on Saturday had Horton, Pearce, Amone, Anstee, Nasairani, Prior, Poolman and Pulu

Imagine naming Rodda and Williams as our startgin lock and adding Kalapu to that bench, who do you leave out?
I'd be considering the chances of covering everything with a 6-2 split, because Anstee is the point of difference, Kalapu can't be left out and Isi is a beast. Can out backline be covered by leaving out Poolman?

10, Stewart and Prior can play 10, so yeah there are contingency plans
11 & 14 Covered by Pulu but also Fines-Leleiwasa
12 Tough one, but I don't think it's well covered even with Poolman in the squad if Hamish goes down, lots of stuff will have to be moved around to cover it, my first thought would be Burey to 12 and Prior reluctantly to 10, or maybe Tiatia could play 10 in a pinch, he's slipped into 1st receiver before.
13 You could shift Mataele in one if required and bring Pulu on, you could shift hamish out Burey to 12 Prior or Tiatia to 10, you could just say fuck it, Tim Anstee plays 13 and let him off the leash.
15 Another tough one, probably relying on playing somebody out of position. Probably take Kibirige out of the wing slot, because he looks pretty solid under the high ball and likes contact.

[palitu]

Thanks for the responses! There was no where near enough excitement post win, and we all love to put the boot in when they play like crap!

Ollie is the future and Carlo is Mr Right Now!

To be honest, i think i am rating Tizza as starting over boogs and Ollie. he is a really hard defender (more tackles than Force points each match, well almost...). He is hard over the ball as well.

Sifa and Marley to be our long term front row options

Yep, i Agree, Tom only has so much left, and our Argie buddy will be heading off for a pension.

Actually, looking at every position, we are blooding the next generation team. They have gone from strength to strength, with the only missing part being consistent performances.

Pulu coming in for 30-odd minutes against tired defenses

Now that is a great point. I dont think we have ever had such a back 3 (well, 4). And having Pulu on the bench when you have Mataele, Tiatia, Kirbige is a fantastic place to be. However, we need someone for next year, as Kiribige is heading off.

Prior

Thanks mate, love the work and heart put into the team. I think next year is mentoring and injury cover.


Holy shit, we have gone through some injuries this year.

[chiraag]

If we are keeping Horton (?) I don't think we are losing that much, he is a star of the (near) future.

Isn't Pearce's normal position Hooker? If so, would be good to get him back to that position. I've still got hope Kaitu'u can get back to form too as he has such great potential. Horton seems a bit undersized at times but is certainly a good bench option.

Having one of Robbo or Medrano fit is a must if our scrum is to be competitive.
Rodda is 100% in the team if fit. We need his help at the lineout, maul and scrum.
It looks like Isi is back up to fitness and looked great on Saturday, so I'd have him starting at 8. I'd drop Wells (although I'm sure this is unlikely to happen given he's captain) from the 23 and have RWV at 6 with Anstee or Pugh on the bench.
I'd like to see Strachan back at 23 over Poolman, and would be good to have Kuenzle and Simpson back to fill the other bench spots in the backs. I believe Strachan has played club footy the last 2 weeks, so should be good to go.

[WFDom]

However, we need someone for next year, as Kiribige is heading off.

Has that been confirmed?

[palitu]

Has that been confirmed?

i thought he was a 12month cover. Maybe not. i think it is 12 months, but you are right, i think he is in talks.

[palitu]

Isn't Pearce's normal position Hooker? If so, would be good to get him back to that position. I've still got hope Kaitu'u can get back to form too as he has such great potential. Horton seems a bit undersized at times but is certainly a good bench option.

Having one of Robbo or Medrano fit is a must if our scrum is to be competitive.
Rodda is 100% in the team if fit. We need his help at the lineout, maul and scrum.
It looks like Isi is back up to fitness and looked great on Saturday, so I'd have him starting at 8. I'd drop Wells (although I'm sure this is unlikely to happen given he's captain) from the 23 and have RWV at 6 with Anstee or Pugh on the bench.
I'd like to see Strachan back at 23 over Poolman, and would be good to have Kuenzle and Simpson back to fill the other bench spots in the backs. I believe Strachan has played club footy the last 2 weeks, so should be good to go.

tallest hooker ever!

I forgot about Strachan, definitely put him in over Poolman. He plays FB and 10, and i think he has spent some time at 12. if there are other issues, a shuffling of the back line should cover everything.

[GIGS20]

To be honest, i think i am rating Tizza as starting over boogs and Ollie. he is a really hard defender (more tackles than Force points each match, well almost...). He is hard over the ball as well.

I'm not sure whether you got any negative towards Carlo from me, if you did it was definitely unintentional. Boogie hasn't been fit all year and the skinny is recurrent concussion issues, so it'll be a shame, but I suspect the "should we start Carlo over Boog" question is purely hyptohetical.

To be clear, I 100% think we should be playing Carlo for as many minutes as we can whilst keeping him fit, however I'm also a one eye on the future kind of supporter who thinks that running our only true fetcher into the ground without providing some sort of development to the next guy in the line is short sighted. We can afford to be short sighted and arrogant only when we've eclipsed the aura that surrounds the Crusaders, so let's just keep one eye on succession planning shall we?

Now that is a great point. I dont think we have ever had such a back 3 (well, 4). And having Pulu on the bench when you have Mataele, Tiatia, Kirbige is a fantastic place to be. However, we need someone for next year, as Kiribige is heading off.

I think the Force would be insane if they didn't have extensive, serious talks with Spink and Kibirige (Simpson as well for that matter) about signing on long term. I can see all three of them pushing for Orange jerseys when they're eligible, because they are just that good.
If we are unlucky and Zach's gets him noticed and a big contract in England, I still think I'd be looking for Toni Pulu to come off the pine. Whilst I'm not a fan of the term finisher (in the Cheika sense of the word) Toni Pulu is exactly that, a bloke who can turn a game on it's head within seconds of hitting the field and that's a fantastic thing to have sitting on the sidelines, impatiently waiting for his chance to destroy fools. Yeah, find a good winger to start and then deliver the killing blows courtesy of Toni Pulu thankyouverymuch.

[jargan83]

Tizzano is 23 (and a local lad) - how far into the future do you want?

[GIGS20]

Tizzano is 23 (and a local lad) - how far into the future do you want?

It's never bad to have succession planning

plus, the way he plays, he'll bash himself into early retirement, so sharing game time is also a good thing to consider.

[shasta]

It's never bad to have succession planning

Right and especially in such a work-loaded position.
I really hope Kane is ok. But if not Hardwick is a year younger, playing the house down and I'd move heaven & earth to get him home if possible. If press quotes are anything to go by Spink is interested in staying so I'd be sending a deal to his manager yesterday