Advantage

[Burgs]

I believe Rugby needs a reboot with the definitions of Advantage from Penalties particularly, but also knock on/forward pass infringements.
For one, I believe that the range of offences that qualify for a Penalty and the resultant advantage or points depending on field position is too wide and "minor Penalties" have far too great an impact on the match.
A Penalty deep in attack results in the defending team generally regaining possession from a lineout around the 35-40m and life goes on.
A Penalty anywhere in the defending 40 leads to multiple phases until either the attacking team scores or there is a stoppage, then if a stoppage, going back to either a shot on goal or a kick to the corner for a rolling maul try. There is a very good reason that Hookers are suddenly featuring in the leading try scorers for teams each season.
To me, this isn't equitable for what can often be similar infringements.

I have no problem with cynical play being punished, this isn't about deliberate acts to stop scoring and are borderline Yellow's.
I am talking about the 50/50 contested balls that often have commentary scratching their heads.

To me, I believe the following should be the loose parameters:

Stoppage Advantage-
Advantage from knock on or forward passes is to take the place of a set piece restart, with advantage having been realised one completed phase (ie first ruck or maul clean ball) or 5m in attack after the incident.

Free Kick Advantage-
Far more misdemeanors to become Free Kicks, rather than "Full Arms". Contested Mauls and Rucks and Scrum failures outside the defending 22 seeing advantage accrued four phases or 10m in attack after the incident.

Penalty Advantage-
Any cynical play including throwing the ball away.
Any potentially dangerous play (High tackles etc), given to the TMO for a 1 minute review while the kick for touch or goal occurs. An unsuccessful "quick tap" returned to mark if TMO finds dangerous play.
Contested Mauls and Rucks and Scrum failures inside the defending 22 and quick taps not found to be "Dangerous Play Penalties" seeing advantage accrued six phases or 22m in attack after the incident.

No doubt plenty of holes and "what abouts" in the above, however, it should be enough to illustrate the intent.
Advantage should be about "did the team get an advantage", not "did the team get an advantage and then stuff up or not score".
If you choose to go quick or play on then some of the onus should be on the attacking team. They took the gamble.
I believe this would see far more running Rugby over the changes that have been implemented to date in the pursuit of that outcome.

[James]

I get where you are coming from, Burgs, but I can see the Kiwis exploiting that. I already feel like they push the absolute limits knowing that referees are reluctant to penalise the little things that disrupt flow. Some of it is so unbelievably blatant it is a hair tearer.

[Burgs]

I get where you are coming from, Burgs, but I can see the Kiwis exploiting that. I already feel like they push the absolute limits knowing that referees are reluctant to penalise the little things that disrupt flow. Some of it is so unbelievably blatant it is a hair tearer.

I recall reading/hearing you could pretty much give a penalty from any given ruck or maul...

My main bugbear is the length (distance) given to Penalty Advantage, so open to anything that addresses that.
It is too open to interpretation, which leads to varying application.

[shasta]

I like the idea of limiting the number of phases advantage can apply. I also like sir being able to grade offenses. Would there be any merit of calling, say "Advantage 1 phase" for a knock on/forward pass and so on up according to the offence. I would definitely like something similar for offences like slowing the ruck. Gives the flexibility of punishing illegal play without stoppages. Those offences would still be penalty/YC in try-scoring situations.

[palitu]

those advantages were long (in deistance!)

there were 3 or so in a short period of time that went over 20 meters, with line breaks and all sorts, but then went back for the advantage. really odd.

[GIGS20]

I recall reading/hearing you could pretty much give a penalty from any given ruck or maul...

My main bugbear is the length (distance) given to Penalty Advantage, so open to anything that addresses that.
It is too open to interpretation, which leads to varying application.

Let's start with consistency in the application of advantage.

First half on Saturday, Dickson awarded the wallabies a penalty advantage on about the Kiwi 40, five or six phases later the ball was held up and deemed advantage was taken. I was a bit surprised with the short advantage paid but my usual got to is, As long as that's the standard, I'm cool.

Later in the second half, the All Blacks were awarded an advantage again on their 40, so essentially 20m further away from their tryline, they went through about 18 or 19 phases as they were doing at that point of the game and then muffed the try close to their tryline a significant amount of time and metres and phases more than the Wallabies were given, so I was expecting play on, however it was called back for advantage to the original spot?

I think before we change to a completely different system, let's try getting the current system right!

[Burgs]

Some interesting variations being trialed in Queensland in coming matches-

Queensland Rugby Challenger Series Law Innovations

Time compliance-

Use of a shot clock on set plays (goal kick, penalty goal, scrum, line out)
Additional referee required to manage initiating timer
Use of a hooter applied when team exceeds time limit
Addition of a 45-second restart following goal kick
Free kick for non-compliance at point of restart.

Ruck-

Greater focus on effort to roll easts or wests
Players can be sanctioned for intentionally preventing players from rolling
No players can join attacking ruck one referee calls ‘use it’
Free kick for non-compliance

Lineout-

Teams cannot add numbers to a maul established from a lineout

Advantage Law-

Advantage over is adjudicated following four phases of play, significant line-break or executed kick with positive outcome

Mark-

A mark can be taken anywhere inside a team’s own half
Knockdown
No intentional knock down

Referee Dissent-

20m advancement of penalty mark
Dissent inside attack 22m allows for penalty option in front of posts
Reoccurring dissents results in a yellow card

[Garry Owen]

Some interesting variations being trialed in Queensland in coming matches-

Queensland Rugby Challenger Series Law Innovations

Time compliance-

Use of a shot clock on set plays (goal kick, penalty goal, scrum, line out)
Additional referee required to manage initiating timer
Use of a hooter applied when team exceeds time limit
Addition of a 45-second restart following goal kick
Free kick for non-compliance at point of restart.

Ruck-

Greater focus on effort to roll easts or wests
Players can be sanctioned for intentionally preventing players from rolling
No players can join attacking ruck one referee calls ‘use it’
Free kick for non-compliance

Lineout-

Teams cannot add numbers to a maul established from a lineout

Advantage Law-

Advantage over is adjudicated following four phases of play, significant line-break or executed kick with positive outcome

Mark-

A mark can be taken anywhere inside a team’s own half
Knockdown
No intentional knock down

Referee Dissent-

20m advancement of penalty mark
Dissent inside attack 22m allows for penalty option in front of posts
Reoccurring dissents results in a yellow card

Some of those are shocking, particularly the mark and no intentional knock down.

[shasta]

Some of those are shocking, particularly the mark and no intentional knock down.

I think the no intentional knock down is a big positive. The onus should be on the ball carrier to either take the risk or don't throw the pass.
The mark, I'm not so sure about.

[Sheikh]

Some interesting variations being trialed in Queensland in coming matches-

Queensland Rugby Challenger Series Law Innovations

Lineout-

Teams cannot add numbers to a maul established from a lineout

I quite like the tactic of calling backs in to help with a rolling maul. It makes the defending side have to make a decision on whether to call their own backs in, or leave them out in case the ball is extracted from the maul and spun wide.

[GIGS20]

Some of those are shocking, particularly the mark and no intentional knock down.

I'm not sure about the nobody can join a maul formed at the lineout.

It basically means that you can't defend a well formed maul that has gained momentum, without that rule, you can always add extra bodies to stop the maul, but you lose coverage in the passing lanes. Does that also mean that players who drop the bind by shearing off can't rejoin? if so, form the maul quick, move it off the line early and then complain that everybody in the defensive lineout has joined the maul.

Without a corresponding rule limiting the maul in some way, it'll simply mean teams form a maul at lineout, get a good shove on and roll it to the tryline. I predict this one will be thrown out the instant a team scores a 30m maul try.

[AndyS]

Better still, form up, everyone but the back three drop the maul, then those three shear off and no-one can touch them even if it were a 90m stroll...still the same maul.

[Burgs]

...a team scores a 30m maul try.

You make that sound unappealing???
Forward heaven!!!