Brumbies v Force Round 3

[Burgs]

White and Donaldson make Australian Team of the Week.

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/super-...-three-2024311

[Burgs]

Right, my bit of analysis/observation around the Potter claret-

Prefaced by two missed Penalties back in our 22-

1. Lolesio high tackle on Kuenzle charging over the 22

2. Frost flop on Donaldson chasing through charge down

Then the events as I saw them-

1. Potter flies down the sideline with Toole finally catching up, implementing a dubious tackle, at least a seatbelt Penalty if not also a punch. Really needs another angle from the far side.

2. Seeing Potter falling to the ground I believe Meredith (#22) attempts to pull out of the contact and glances the left side of Potters head with thigh/knee. Contact, but nothing hard enough to split the other side of Potters forehead.

3. The retreating Ikitau (#13) correctly comes around through the gate but appears to accidentally glance Potters right side of head with a dropping knee cap, basically bone on bone, seeing an almost instantaneous volcano of blood.

4. To add insult to injury, Anstee catches up, enters the ruck, managing to headbutt Potter in the left side of his head!

In summary, despite to penalties that should have been awarded (during that time a knock on advantage was awarded and elapsed) back in the 22, effectively the break by Potter would have seen the Penalty Advantage elapse.
Therefore I would have made the call against Toole for the Penalty and Placed On Review. Given the scoreline and time, the Force would have kicked for the corner. Given the strength of the Force lineout all night... who knows...

[WFDom]

Potter got a kicking! 😂

[valzc]

With 16-4 penalty count, do we know what the penalties were for & at what times. Just curious, as they always seem to happen when Force start looking threatening or getting ascendancy, & then the penalties start to flow. Otherwise can we see what type of penalties they being done for - is it the same things they’re getting pinged on as I lost track what specific ones were for. And I would wonder if Cron is getting a bit concerned as to the amount of latitude other teams are allowed to get away with against the Force.

[GIGS20]

I don't have a list of the penalties given or ignored valzc, but the Brumbies are well known for being as cynical as it takes to stop their opponents scoring.

They're pretty good at getting away with it against all teams, not just the force.

[Garry Owen]

I don't have a list of the penalties given or ignored valzc, but the Brumbies are well known for being as cynical as it takes to stop their opponents scoring.

They're pretty good at getting away with it against all teams, not just the force.

There were quite a few scrum penalties which were justified but I remember one right near the end where we should have been awarded a scrum penalty to us but ref chose to re-pack and then the subsequent scrum penalized us.

Another shocker was after we made a break and then Muirhead awarded a penalty for not releasing when he never let go of the player.

Sounds like we are all a bunch of whingers but all the 50/50s went against us

[Burgs]

I watched the match again with a mind to the Scrums.
Remarkably the first Scrum didn't get set until almost 13 minutes and I wanted to see if there was a relationship between the Scrum setting and the scoring trajectory.

12:55- Awarded Brumbies. Free Kick Force. Force Reset for Force win

23:00- Awarded Brumbies- Brumbies win

26:44- Awarded Brumbies- Free Kick Brumbies. Brumbies called Reset for Brumbies win

32:10- Awarded Brumbies- Penalty Brumbies. Brumbies 3 Points

34:48- Awarded Brumbies- Brumbies win

38:01- Awarded Force- Reset- Reset- Force win

43:37- Awarded Brumbies- Brumbies win

Lonergan to Bench @ 45:05 for Pollard

50:19- Penalty. Called Brumbies (Kickable)- Brumbies win (Brumbies knock on)

Slipper to Bench @ 51:21 for Schoupp

Kautai to Bench @ 51:21 for Van Nek

51:21- Awarded Force- Reset- Brumbies Penalty

57:50- Awarded Force- Reset- Force win

Medrano to Bench @ 60 for Tauakipulu

Horton to Bench @ 67 for Kaitu’u

68:00- Awarded Brumbies- Reset- Brumbies Penalty

Coxon to Bench @ 69 for Hancock

70:00- Awarded Brumbies- Brumbies Penalty

77:30- Awarded Brumbies- Reset- Brumbies Penalty

I would say that for the first 26 the Scrum had no influence in the match, to the Force even having the confidence to take a Free Kick Scrum.
As time went by and fatigue took hold of the full pack it began to slide a little conceding three points and a couple of the Brumbies wins were a second or two away from a Penalty as well.
From the 51 minute mark the Brumbies progressively asserted dominance and once the full Force Bench was on it was a trainwreck.
Coxon played a mighty 69 minutes in his second outing (following being stretchered in Melbourne!) for the Force, but as everyone is aware the step from our Starters to the Bench is just to great with the Props. An argument could be made that our junior Props aren't helped by the lack of depth in the Locks, as they are coming on with knackered Locks still having to push behind them.
With the Hookers, Horton also had a very productive 67 minutes and was an unsung hero. He is basically a second #7 around the park and holds his own in the starting Pack. Kaitu’u probably brings more to the Scrum, but needs to with the quality of Bench Props and would suggest to being a major part of why he is Bench not starting.

[GIGS20]

Thanks for that burgs.

Did you notice any foundation for the argument that the force were dudded at scrum time?

I thought it was more subject to the inexperience of the Force front row reserves and the vagaries of scrum penalties. You generally find that refs will favour the team with a tighthead moving forward until they've formed an opinion that one team is struggling.

[Burgs]

Did you notice any foundation for the argument that the force were dudded at scrum time?

Not really mate, if anything Lonergan probably could have milked another 1 or 2 Penalties rather than play.
I think the valid point from the general public mud flingers is there is a distinct drop to our Reserve Props (which shouldn't be unexpected given injuries and RC), however, scrums are a 5 and 8 man enterprise and I don't think the rest of the pack should get off entirely without shouldering some of the blame as well.
All things considered, we had awarded 4 scrums, retained 3, gave away 1 Penalty on our own feed and drew a Free Kick from a Brumbies feed.
Unfortunately the string of red in my original comments at the back quarter of the match just isn't up to standard Started with tiring Starters, but continued with Reserves against Reserves.
To be honest, the score could have been far worse, as the first 12 minutes shows, the best way to "fix" Scrum issues is to avoid Scrums...

[GIGS20]

Not really mate, if anything Lonergan probably could have milked another 1 or 2 Penalties rather than play.
I think the valid point from the general public mud flingers is there is a distinct drop to our Reserve Props (which shouldn't be unexpected given injuries and RC), however, scrums are a 5 and 8 man enterprise and I don't think the rest of the pack should get off entirely without shouldering some of the blame as well.
All things considered, we had awarded 4 scrums, retained 3, gave away 1 Penalty on our own feed and drew a Free Kick from a Brumbies feed.
Unfortunately the string of red in my original comments at the back quarter of the match just isn't up to standard Started with tiring Starters, but continued with Reserves against Reserves.
To be honest, the score could have been far worse, as the first 12 minutes shows, the best way to "fix" Scrum issues is to avoid Scrums...

I do think we have a significant drop off when the reserves come on, but it's pretty evenly spread amongst the Tight 5
Ryan Coxon is our 7th loosehead contracted this season. I think that'd put him at 6 and Hancock at 7 in the pecking order (but that might change, because Coxon has done pretty well considering)
we're also down Sifa Amone (Bench Tighthead), Felix Kalapu (Bench Lock), Issak Rodda (Number one lock) and likely some other choices

with a tight 5 as battered as that, it's no wonder we're struggling to scrum.

Yes its an 8 man effort but when only 3 of those 8 are first choice players and the other 5 are in positions which bear most of the responsibility then it's gonna have an impact.

[Garry Owen]

I do think we have a significant drop off when the reserves come on, but it's pretty evenly spread amongst the Tight 5
Ryan Coxon is our 7th loosehead contracted this season. I think that'd put him at 6 and Hancock at 7 in the pecking order (but that might change, because Coxon has done pretty well considering)
we're also down Sifa Amone (Bench Tighthead), Felix Kalapu (Bench Lock), Issak Rodda (Number one lock) and likely some other choices

with a tight 5 as battered as that, it's no wonder we're struggling to scrum.

Yes its an 8 man effort but when only 3 of those 8 are first choice players and the other 5 are in positions which bear most of the responsibility then it's gonna have an impact.

Does anyone know how Atu Moli went on the weekend and if he is ready to come in for this week?