League XV's

[Burgs]

During the New Years period, with seven lazy days away on holiday and no TWF to check, my mind got to thinking "what kind of a Union team could you make if you could only have League players?"
Australia always argues that we lose a lot of players to the other codes, so what if they were all available?
So, armed with my trust Rugby League Week '06 Preview Edition and the limited viewing time of League you get in country WA, I came up with the following squads.
A 1st XV and a "Development" XV.
Some players would work, many may not but would have if they had grown up playing Union.
All in good fun but feel free to bag out the selections or even give your own selection.

League 1st XV:
1 Adrian Morley, Sydney Roosters
2 Danny Buderus, Newcastle Knights
3 Shane Webcke, Brisbane Broncos
4 Willie Mason, Canterbury Bulldogs
5 Steve Menzies, Manly Sea Eagles
6 Brent Tate, Brisbane Broncos
7 Nathan Hindmarsh, Parramatta Eels
8 Ben Kennedy, Manly Sea Eagles
9 Brett Kimmorley, Cronulla Sharks
10 Andrew Johns (Capt), Newcastle Knights
11 Hazem El Masri (Kicker), Canterbury Bulldogs
12 Darren Lockyer, Brisbane Broncos
13 Mark Gasnier, St George Dragons
14 Matt Sing, North Queensland Cowboys
15 Anthony Minichiello, Sydney Roosters

16 Petero Civoniceva, Brisbane Broncos
17 Luke Priddis, Penrith Panthers
18 Craig Fitzgibbon, Sydney Roosters
19 Jason Croker, Canberra Raiders
20 Tim Smith, Parramatta Eels
21 Braith Anasta, Sydney Roosters
22 Brett Hodgson, Wests Tigers
Coach Wayne Bennett


Development XV:
1 Ben Ross, Cronulla Sharks
2 Ben Cross, Melbourne Storm
3 Ben Hannant, Brisbane Broncos
4 Sam Harris, Wests Tigers
5 Jacob Selmes, Cronulla Sharks
6 John Sutton, South Sydney Rabbitohs
7 Matthew Scott, North Queensland Cowboys
8 Tom Learoyd-Lahrs, Canberra Raiders
9 Scott Prince (Capt), Wests Tigers
10 Johnathan Thurston, North Queensland Cowboys
11 Karmichael Hunt, Brisbane Broncos
12 Brett Delaney, Penrith Panthers
13 Matt King, Melbourne Storm
14 Ty Williams, North Queensland Cowboys
15 Matt Bowen, North Queensland Cowboys

16 Luke Douglas, Cronulla Sharks
17 Sam Thaiday, Brisbane Broncos
18 Keith Galloway, Cronulla Sharks
19 Ashley Harrison, Sydney Roosters
20 James Aubusson, Melbourne Storm
21 Daniel Holdsworth (WA boy!), Canterbury
22 Michael Lett, Sydney Roosters
Coach Tim Sheens

[.X.]

An interesting line up Burgs, tho there effectivness against top line Provincial sides would be limited during set plays, but they would be a sight to be hold during open play.

I am and will continue to be a big believer that League Players do not make good Union Players and I challenge anyone to find me a player that will prove me wrong.

[LarryNJ]

I am and will continue to be a big believer that League Players do not make good Union Players

Why? Is it a different style game? .

[Burgs]

Yeah, pretty much with you there tcie however the premise is that they were Union players to begin with rather than converts. IE fresh meat that could have gone on in the rugby world.
I'd pay good money to see either back line in action behind a genuine Union forward pack!

LNJ, others will have extra points to add but the basic premise is that League players have different defensive patterns ingrained in them, are less skilled at multi phase passing and generally are not as suited to the more three dimensional Union.
Also the League scrums are a joke, just an excuse to restart play, so they tend to end up with six forwards of Union back row ability and no genuine front row and second row built players.
There are exceptions to every rule and many players swap codes during their careers, either as juniors or professionally (many of the all time great Wallabies grew up playing both codes at the same time!) and amongst the squads above there are some very skilled sportsmen who have been trained in a certain sport.

[LarryNJ]

I'm assuming that the league must be similar to the way the NHL was up until this year. You would have average to below average defensive players who would hook, grab, clutch, slash ect. (all against the rules) the faster highly skilled players. This year they are calling those penalties and the games are much more exciting.

Why is the league so much more popular?

[.X.]

Larry - I would say that League is more popular for a couple of reasons;

1. Its easier to understand and follow. A lot of Unions laws are very difficult to grasp. even for some players. League is a very simple game, and in some respects similar to American Football.

2. And this is the big point, Its what you are brought up with - if Dad was a League fan then so are you and vice versa.

[Burgs]

A lot of Unions laws are very difficult to grasp. even for some players.

And refs

[.X.]

Yes that too.

THere is an idea for a new thread - best and worst Ref's, Any takers?

[Burgs]

A bit of fun folks, any thoughts on the "teams" in the original post?
If you're not careful I'll do an AFL XV, I've got one ready you know!

[Sagerian]

No Sunny Bill Williams or Benji Marshall?

I'll work on a list, but I agree that leaguies generally don't make good rugby players. But hey, whatever this is just hypothetical.

[Burgs]

They are Kiwis mate, otherwise Sonny Bill would find a berth for sure.
Don't think Benji Marshall could handle it, they hide him in defence at the Tig's which is ok when you have multi phase but not possible in Union.
The hypothetical is under the premise that they have played Union since school, not converted as senior players, give it a whirl

[chook]

Too many old fellas in that orignal team Burgs I reckon. Hindmarsh (dunno where to put him...Flanker?) would be good I think and Minichello (Wing). Greg Inglis (Centre/FB/Wing) for sure.

[JediKnight]

British experience of 'League' players excelling at Rugby is more linked to the latter days of amateur rugby when big name rugby players went over to the dark side to earn a bit of cash. Those that subsequently came back to rugby stood out due to the increased fitness required (at that time) to play league.

With the advent of professional rugby fitness levels have caught up with league and I don't believe that taking someone out of leauge when they have never played rugby, or haven't since school, adds a lot to our game.

Players should want to play rugby and not switch back & forward based on cash offers on the table.

The Australian experience....let's look at big name converts:
Sailor - couldn't pass, couldn't tackle, ran fast but ended up following the wrong white lines (allegedly)
Rogers - can't kick, like a rabbit caught in headlights, an impact player at best coming on with fresh legs when the opposition is knackered, passes well
Lote - a big winger (or whinger?!) at best, let's face it....a big fast strong winger will always make an impact, he can't kick, looks good tackling when he makes a big hit but otherwise is a lazy tackler, can't (or won't) pass

My verdict....send them all back to league and get back to basics!!!

[travelling_gerry]

hear hear......Lote was pushing up from the defence line into no one last night ..and if he did tackle someone it was the wrong person

go back to the mungo's

[Burgs]

Fellas.....

"The hypothetical is under the premise that they have played Union since school, not converted as senior players"

The realities of CONVERSION is covered elsewhere, this is more about the general skill level, body and fitness of the players concerned, we seemed to get bogged down on the League playing Union debate rather than just appreciating them as athlete's and discussing how they would have gone at Union, not if they should convert now as experienced League players.

Don't mean to sound precious about it fellas, just that we keep missing the point, the thread is meant as a bit of hypothetical fun, not a League v Union debate.

Chook, to be fair, the original XV's were picked on the 2nd of January ie a season ago and under the original premise (above) that means they would be at the peak of their Union career along with Larkham, Latham, Gregan etal.
I agree that for season '07 there would be a few "retirements" and Inglis would be right at the top of my hypothetical list to get a start.

Come on fellas, must be someone out there who can knock up a list?
As warned, my "AFL XV" is waiting in the wings.....