Brumbies snag schoolboy sensation

[tic]

Some fair points and I agree the Reds management in the past is substantially to blame - though to be fair, they have worked hard at turning that around, but must presently feel they are fighting a losing battle. It may well be different when they start winning again - confidence breeds success and this produces a better product for market. But the wages are an issue and must be addressed, because like it or not, four teams in the Australian market stretches things very thin, and a disproportionate payment to a few favoured players make player retention at the other end very difficult. I agree that it is wise not to bag the Reds alone because this is a problem across the board - at the moment the Force are enjoying some success but there are dangerous signs at present that the earlier success this year may be fools gold. If their season collapses and next year aint too good either, they are at risk of being in far worse shape then the Reds - who at least have a rich junior asset base as you state.

[jazza93]

the force wont just collapse next season there only going to get more money from fans and sponsers for a while now but reds are struggling to keep fans and sponsers but im sure they will come through just like force did last season.

It may well be different when they start winning again

haha reds win a game nice one

[tic]

Pride goeth before a fall my friend. Those words may well come back to bite you. It clearly shows that you have scant knowledge of the layers of this game and the problems and dangers that lurk.

[shasta]

But the wages are an issue and must be addressed, because like it or not, four teams in the Australian market stretches things very thin, and a disproportionate payment to a few favoured players make player retention at the other end very difficult.

I think you are looking for something that is not realistically achievable, tic, even if a lot of us might agree with you. The market will decide.

Elite players in Australia and to a greater extent NZ, mostly play for the chance achieve Wallaby/AB honors. If it wasn't for that then most of them would probably go for the big money in Europe and Japan. That's why I agree with the ARU's Wallaby eligibility criteria, even though they are getting slightly wobbly on it right now. If they don't hold to this policy and/or player payments are regulated we'd probably see a lot more heading overseas a lot earlier.

The difficulty for Oz, of course, is that the talent pool is thin. We will always see older players who've achieved all their on-field goals taking the superannuation option overseas. There will also be a problem holding on to players who no longer see any chance of national honors. Chris O'Young from The Force is a good example. After years of getting splinters in his arse and probably not a lot of money he's decided to go for the money. Nobody can blame him.

The remedy is developing juniors, providing more places for young up and comers and coaxing back some players already overseas. I think the extra S14 and hopefully ARC opportunities will go some way towards that.

[The EnForcer]

I just think he's ticked off

[pruc]

at the moment the Force are enjoying some success but there are dangerous signs at present that the earlier success this year may be fools gold. If their season collapses and next year aint too good either, they are at risk of being in far worse shape then the Reds - who at least have a rich junior asset base as you state.

you watch.... in a few years rugby in WA will have a junior asset base. Here in the West our numbers a fluctuating. with the increase in rugby numbers at a grassroots level. and with from u17 down starting to produce some very exciting players. in years to come the force will have a very good juniors base!

[GIGS20]

Whilst I can see your point in much of this tic, I think you panic a bit too early. It seems strange to me that thephilosophical, long term view is provided by the newcomer, but don't forget wherethe Force was this time last year. This year is not different because of us sucking the life out of Queensland so much as thefact that we've had a pretty good year with injuries and they haven't. I'm sure that the respective positions of teams will follow the injury list next year, with the possible exception of the Brumbies who seem to be able to manage that a bit better than the other three. It's a simple fact that bums on seats attract sponsors and therefore it only takes a few seasons with a positive injury list before the Reds have the purchasing power to retain the juniors they are currently losing. Let's face it, The Force recruited Matt Giteau and Drew Mitchell last year before they won a single game, whilst they weresittingon the bottomof the ladder, they must have been able to puttogethera pretty good set of sponsors and corporatesbased upon something!

[tic]

you watch.... in a few years rugby in WA will have a junior asset base. Here in the West our numbers a fluctuating. with the increase in rugby numbers at a grassroots level. and with from u17 down starting to produce some very exciting players. in years to come the force will have a very good juniors base!

No doubt that there will be a developing junior base, but it won't be anything like the base of Qld and NSW which have 125 and 150 years of rugby development. That is what makes the Force vulnerable if they have a protracted lean patch - a contingency not planned for by the myopic vacuous toffs at the ARU. I guess that is my main beef - the ARU slap themselves on the back heartily for getting a fourth team in, but do nothing to plan for the survival of the four teams thereafter. Their lack of leadership on player payments is but one example. They are like the Americans who won the battle for Baghdad but never planned how to secure the peace in the long run. Now what do we see in Iraq? Kaboom!

[Burgs]

Sooo...any word on how Matt Toomua's going Evie

[jazza93]

No doubt that there will be a developing junior base, but it won't be anything like the base of Qld and NSW which have 125 and 150 years of rugby development. That is what makes the Force vulnerable if they have a protracted lean patch - a contingency not planned for by the myopic vacuous toffs at the ARU. I guess that is my main beef - the ARU slap themselves on the back heartily for getting a fourth team in, but do nothing to plan for the survival of the four teams thereafter. Their lack of leadership on player payments is but one example. They are like the Americans who won the battle for Baghdad but never planned how to secure the peace in the long run. Now what do we see in Iraq? Kaboom!

you never know the junior base could be as good. rugby is becoming more popular in perth and they are getting more good players from other sports. it will probly take a few years but you never know. the aru doesnt need to help the other teams survive. each of the years the force have been the they have had 2 teams in the top half and it looks like one in the top 4. force were crap last year and look how easy it is to start winning games again.

[Burgs]

I think we have hijacked Evies' thread long enough fellas!
Feel free to start up another thread if you wish to take the debate any further but I think it's been pretty much covered now...