O'Neill envisages Super 14 expansion

[Flamethrower]

O'Neill envisages Super 14 expansion
AAP | Saturday, 4 August 2007
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4151921a10295.html

South Africa's interest in exploring moves into the Northern Hemisphere could open the door for Super 14 rugby teams based on the Gold Coast and Melbourne within three years.

So says Australian Rugby Union chief executive John O'Neill, who believes more Australian teams may be established when the SANZAR broadcast rights are renegotiated in 2010.

O'Neill said South Africa's failure to commit to the Super 14 and Tri-Nations in the long-term meant alternative teams needed to be considered.

With South Africa in the same time zone as Europe, officials in the Republic are interested in investigating an inclusion in the Six Nations and a change to their season.

If that occurred, the current SANZAR agreement would break down and it would be unlikely the five South African franchises would remain in the Super 14.

"There's a lot of things up for grabs coming into 2010," O'Neill said yesterday.

"There's conjecture that South Africa might join the Northern Hemisphere.

"I think they would prefer to stay in the SANZAR relationship but they've told me they will explore the option of going north. . . whether that's brinkmanship or not I don't know.

"Australia and New Zealand would then clearly have opportunities (to expand) but we're not looking for South Africa to leave us.

"Australian rugby wants to get as big a footprint around Australia as possible.

"A team in Melbourne and a team on the Gold Coast I think would be a pretty sensible option."

Victoria lost out to the Western Force for Australia's fourth license in the expanded Super 14 two years ago but hope the Melbourne Rebels, playing in the inaugural Australian Rugby Championship (ARC), will help lift rugby's profile in the AFL-mad state.

The tourist strip is already home to the NRL's Gold Coast Titans while the AFL is pushing the relocation of the Kangaroos from North Melbourne to ensure a bigger Australian rules presence in Queensland.

O'Neill yesterday visited the construction site at Robina Stadium which will be the home next year for ARC club East Coast Aces and the Titans.

Given the large number of New Zealanders living on the Gold Coast, O'Neill said it could be prudent for New Zealand and Australia to form a joint venture side based on the Coast.

A combined Pacific Islands team has been speculated as a possible franchise in the past with the Coast as a cost-effective base.

O'Neill said he would like to see the ARU work more closely with the New Zealand Rugby Union (NZRU) at all levels.

"Maybe as our Australian Rugby Championship becomes more of an attraction there might be some room for engagement with the New Zealand National Provincial Championship," he said.

"I think New Zealand and Australia have come to the conclusion that we need each other to be strong.

"The more we can co-operate to our mutual benefit the better."

O'Neill said he expected the ARC to "take pain" financially in the first three years but added there was enough investment to ensure the competition remained viable in the long-term.

[The Big I]

What about making it a truely southern hemisphere competition by including an Argentinian team in it

[jazza93]

i think 6/7 teams from nz vs 5/6 teams from australia would be a good comp insted of super14. argentina is to far away and it would be to hard for them unless they moved over here for 3 months.

[Burgs]

A bit outside the S14 debate but it would be good to see a Championship between the ARC, NPC, Currie Cup and Argentinian Club Winners.
Three extra matches in a year and, if no World Cup, including International players.

[tic]

If South Africa go, the sensible thing would be to invite some of the stronger Japanese clubs and some composite South Pacific clubs. I agree that Argentina is too far away, but love the idea of having some Argie teams in it.

I worry about Melbourne and just don't think it will be supported. The Storm only pulled 11000 last Friday night despite their team being first and playing the Eels who were third and have a large supporter base.

The Gold Coast is also a stretch. Robina stadium is superb and the concept of a composite Aussie/Kiwi team is a great idea (particularly if games were marketed into NZ as part of a Gold Coast holiday package with theme parks etc), BUT, there is a lot of competition with The Titans and possibly the move of the Kangaroos from Melbourne to the Gold Coast in the next few years.

Don't get me wrong, I can stagger home fro Robina Stadium (only 3 kms from my home) and would love to see high grade rugby there. I just don't know that it would work on the Gold coast inside 10 years.

[Burgs]

tic, do you go (can't believe I'm kinda supporting Melbourne here ) to all the Titans home games?

[Seldom]

Another team in Aust would depend on $'s and home support from the ground level.Melbourne would be logical but AFL have such a strong hold and the Union Team would be #4 behind NRL. Adding in teams from Samoa and Fiji (if Sa leave, sooks!)could also stenghten the game in the pacific as both countries have players thru out Oz and Nz. Could give a bigger player base to chose from??????

[James]

I'd like to see the 4 Aus teams, 5 NZ teams playing against the remainder of Fiji, Tonga and Samoa players who don't go to play in Europe make up 3 teams (Super 12). Then the Tri-Nations could have a Pacific Island team. It could always be expanded to a Super 14 from there with a team from Melbourne and a team from the Bay of Plenty (NZ).

[JediKnight]

Is that the Bay of Plenty that are currently languishing at the bottom of the NPC ladder after 4 rounds? Let them in.....as soon as possible......it'll help the 'Tahs move up the ladder (or at least be further from the bottom!!!!)!!!!

[jargan83]

i'm on the melbourne bandwagon in the case of further super 14 expansion (current super 14) people say that the afl has such a toehold in melbourne but 3 or 4 (possibly 5) of the clubs only survive because of AFL handouts to the tune of $1 million a year, and some of them barely break even or even lose money. Was the japanese club who came to play the western force gold last year (july 2006 i think) one of the stronger sides because if so could lead to some one sided results (in the case of Sth Africa buggering off to play with the Northern Hemisphere). But like Jediknight said that would help the waratahs get higher up the ladder hahahahaha

[Burgs]

The (very) hypothetical of a Japanese club, they would either need to be the National XV or a composite team to be competitive.
Any individual existing Club would get blown away.
Really it depends if the NZRU and ARU wanted to risk sponsors by diluting the "product" for a couple of years for longer term lifting of standards.
By that I mean they currently have the model which ensures the highest standard of players for each team (without actually dropping teams back to S12 or S10 days).
Right now we COULD have teams playing out of both Melbourne and the Gold Coast, the high standard of the ARC without (arguably) our best 30-40 (allowing for up to ten out injured, John Roe, Dave Pusey etc) has demonstrated that however, the overall standard of the then six Australian based teams would be lower than it is today.
If that was then matched by an extra two from New Zealand, say North Harbour and a "Central South Island" then you would be starting to see a level playing field to add other options too.
Basically the first pick National XV's of Samoa and Fiji are S14 standard with Tonga some way behind that however, you would probably find a combined PI team to be verging on too dominant.

[jargan83]

yeah because i seem to remember the japanese club (Yamaha if i remember correctly) getting hammered by the Western Force 2nd XV by about 60ish points

[JediKnight]

yeah because i seem to remember the japanese club (Yamaha if i remember correctly) getting hammered by the Western Force 2nd XV by about 60ish points

a good match for the 'Tahs then!

[jargan83]

a good match for the 'Tahs then!

hahahahahaha i will pay that, maybe we should pair the waratahs up with yamaha for a game, might be a contest??? :s

[JediKnight]

shame no-one would turn up at watch the match (unless it was played in Japan)